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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dr Mike Webberley suspended

333 replies

Brighterf · 18/05/2019 07:06

Seems like Dr Mike Webberley has now also been suspended and he and his wife now plan to take their services overseas. Can't see this reported elsewhere yet though.

www.gaystarnews.com/article/mike-webberley-suspended-trans-kids/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 24/05/2019 11:49

Yeah a UK one would be better, as once it has 10k sigs it has to get a response I think? 100k means a debate in parliament, but it seems not many petitions get quite that much support..

R0wantrees · 24/05/2019 13:15

A parliamentory petition will, if it is written carefully be more effective.

It would be good if some of those directly impacted eg the females apparently harmed by Dr Mike Webberley, parents of childen who have identified as transgender, or those who have been involved in the whistle blowing, with Safeguarding or medical backgounds came together to create a nuanced and hopefully effective petition.

The wording matters, so too the authors.

Many people are very concerned and it makes sense to consider how best to try to influence MPs.

ByGrabtharsHammarWhatASaving · 24/05/2019 13:40

I agree, I signed a petition on CitizenGo before without knowing what it's values were and was then inundated with information about petitions I hadn't signed about campaigns I strongly did not support such as anti-choice and anti gay marriage campaigns. I know we're "hands across the aisle" and all but I don't want any association with that kind of thing. Would much prefer a petition on the parliament site or a politically neutral site.

OldCrone · 24/05/2019 13:51

@Carowiththegoodhair
Would you consider posting your petition on the UK Parliament petitions site? I notice your petition now has over 5000 signatures, and there are many of us here who are not keen to sign that one, but would sign one on the parliament petitions site, where the government has to respond to over 10,000 signatures. The Citizen Go one they can just ignore if they wish.

Since you have already written out the petition, you could just copy and paste to the other site. Anyone else here would have to start from scratch, and many of us are not keen to put our real names out there as the creator of such a petition.

R0wantrees · 24/05/2019 14:06

OldCrone As Caro's is already running and Im sure will be supported by many it would (IMO) be better not to simply replicate across platforms.

Im sure there are other people who might wish/ or are able to create one in due course.

OldCrone · 24/05/2019 14:16

I see what you mean, R0wantrees. A second, totally distinct petition on the other platform might be better. I feel it's a shame that Caro decided to put her petition on a site which is likely to be divisive, as well as it having no official status, since the parliament petitions site should have been the natural place to put it.

I'm not comfortable with putting my name out there at the moment, so I'm hoping that someone else will do it.

R0wantrees · 24/05/2019 14:29

It maybe that it was a natural choice for Caro to use the platform.

As ChattyLions says above there are people of all political/ideological stripes concerned about children.

Some concerns align, some are different.

PencilsInSpace · 24/05/2019 16:56

I think a government petition would be a great idea.

The time is right for this. As well as the webberley stuff, we've had the Tavi resignations, Mordaunt's complete silence on last year's 'urgent' ROGD investigation and there are more and more detransitioners and desisters making their voices heard. Maria Miller said in January that the focus should not be on GRA reform but on trans health care.

Happy to oblige, Maria.

One important thing to note about govt. petitions - they will reject anything that looks like a duplicate so it has to be written carefully - we need to get it right first time.

SpeckofStardust · 24/05/2019 17:16

*It maybe that it was a natural choice for Caro to use the platform.

As ChattyLions says above there are people of all political/ideological stripes concerned about children.

Some concerns align, some are different.*

Natural choice? Probably, but also bloody sneaky. I'm not buying Caroline's wide-eyed innocence in this. Everyone, including her, knows how to get government and the vast majority of potential supporters' eyes on a petition. It's shit like this, associating the majority of GC women with ultra-right wing conservative groups and some of their their other, frankly obnoxious, ideologies that gives TRAs all the ammo they need to say this is more about bigotry than about sex-based rights.

R0wantrees · 24/05/2019 18:05

SpeckofStardust I agree that things must be transparent.

There have been and will continue to be people/groups who will seek to coopt and whose primary motivations are ideological/political rather than centring women's rights & safeguarding.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 24/05/2019 20:34

I have honestly never suspected citizengo was anything other than..well a petition site. Have signed a few on there without knowing this. I really need to look into things before doing them tbh

MoleSmokes · 28/05/2019 02:01

I could not get that "curvetube" video to play @R0wantrees but I found it on YouTube - it is Unlisted so does not show up in normal searches:

"How to get hormones in 3-4 weeks // MtF & FtM~UK // GenderGP"

MoleSmokes · 28/05/2019 03:54

10 January 2019 - Tribunal Decision "on the papers":
Dr Helen Webberley's Appeal against "DECISION ON NATIONAL DISQUALIFICATION" by NHS WALES/ANEURIN BEVAN UNIVERSITY HEALTH BOARD

phl.decisions.tribunals.gov.uk/Documents/(FTT)%20Decision%20on%20National%20Disqualification%2023%20January%202019%20-%20[2018]%203251.PHL.pdf

Extracts

  1. On 22 October 2018 the panel made a decision to remove the Appellant from the Respondent’s medical performers list (MPL) on the grounds of her unsuitability. The panel also gave directions regarding consideration of the potential issue of national disqualification. This included a direction for the parties to state if they remained content for the panel to proceed to consider the issue of national disqualification on the papers.
  1. Suffice to say that it became necessary to issue subsequent directions. We need not rehearse the history which is fully set out in the various directions issued. In the event by email dated 11 December 2018 Dr Webberley unequivocally consented to consideration of the issue of national disqualification on the papers. (The Respondent had always requested consideration of the issue of national disqualification on the papers).

The Parties’ Respective Positions

  1. The Appellant provided evidence under cover of an email dated 19 November 2018. She does not accept the panel’s substantive decision. So far as the issue of national disqualification is concerned she relies, amongst other matters, on letters written by the Respondent and sent to the General Medical Council (GMC) in 2016 and 2017 to the effect that they were not aware of any concerns regarding her work as a GP locally.
  1. In her letter dated 11 December 2018 Dr Webberley states that she is currently suspended from the GMC register pending the outcome of their investigations. She submits that the decision as to whether she needs to have restrictions placed on her registration, or whether she is to be suspended or removed from the register, will be decided by the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service (MPTS) and the GMC. She contends that it is not necessary for this panel to nationally disqualify her from her work as an NHS GP “in the interim.” Her position is that: the GMC will have the benefit of a full investigation into the allegations that are being made against her and will evaluate whether she is suitable to be a doctor working in any capacity; If they find that her professional conduct has been a risk to patients, and that risk is ongoing, or if they find that it is necessary to take action to protect the public confidence in the profession, they have the powers to take action on her registration at its core; this would affect her ability to work both as an NHS GP and as a private provider.
  1. The Respondent contends that an order for national disqualification should be made, with no application for a review to be made before the end of the period of five years being permitted. The Respondent relies upon the following: the findings of the panel in dismissing the appeal were of the utmost seriousness - it found that the Appellant’s attitude is one of “entrenched resistance to regulation” and “highly coloured by her lack of integrity and candour.” National disqualification is as necessary nationally as it is locally for the protection of the interests of patients and NHS resources as demonstrated by the reasons given by the panel for dismissing the appeal. The Appellant has not provided any evidence of mitigation, insight, or remediation. In any event, the qualities that the Tribunal found in the Appellant make it very unlikely that she is capable of insight and remediation. For example: (a) at paragraph 109, the Appellant, “lacks the essential attributes of integrity and candour”; (b) at paragraph 109, the Appellant, “lacks insight”; and, (c) at paragraph 110, the Appellant, “has deep seated attitudinal flaws”. Whilst national disqualification will have an impact on the Appellant, that impact is limited having regard to how little NHS work she was undertaking prior to her suspension.

Our Consideration

10.We have considered all of the material before us. If we do not refer to any particular aspect it should not be assumed that we have not considered the points made.

11.There are two discrete issues:
(i) Whether to impose national disqualification at all:
(ii) If national disqualification is imposed, whether to express an opinion that the conduct of the performer is such that there is no realistic prospect of a further review being successful within the period specified in 18A(8)(a). If we express this opinion the Appellant will be unable to apply for review before the end of five years.

12.We refer to our decision dated 22 October 2018. The findings made related to the overarching issue of Dr Webberley’s self-governance and her willingness to be subject to regulatory governance by those responsible for her continued inclusion in the MPL. In our decision we summarised the reasons for our decision regarding suitability:

“109. We consider that Dr Webberley’s sustained actions in frustrating the efforts of the LHB to reassure itself as to her standards renders her unsuitable for inclusion in the MPL. She told the investigators that terms of reference needed to be set but she knew they had already been set. We have found that her reasons for refusing access to her practice on 5 October were disingenuous and manipulative. She wanted to prevent access or investigation. The respondent has satisfied us that she lacks the essential attributes of integrity and candour which are essential to suitability. She also lacks insight. We do not consider that the attributes of suitability are divisible as between private and NHS practice because suitability is a concept that goes to the very core of practitioner’s true character and attitude. Dr Webberley’s attitude is one of entrenched resistance to regulation and is highly coloured by her lack of integrity and candour.

110. We have considered the overall effects of the past incidents and all the evidence in relation to the current situation in the round. We fully recognise that there were no significant issues regard to Dr Webberley’s clinical practice as an NHS performer when she last practiced at the Blaina surgery in October 2015. Events since then and her responses to the LHB and HIW have revealed deep-seated attitudinal flaws in her approach to governance. The issue underpinning the need for governance is the obvious need for assurance in relation to patient safety.

111. We take full account of the impact of the decision upon Dr Webberley’s ability to further her career and her ambitions. We take into account also that she was seriously unwell in 2016 and has suffered from ill health since. We have fully taken into account her past service in the NHS and her wish to practice in the NHS in future. We consider, nonetheless, that removal is the necessary, reasonable and proportionate response to the facts we have found. In our view, Dr Webberley is unsuitable to be included on the MPL maintained by the respondent.”

13.The decision to impose a national disqualification is discretionary. The core rationale of our removal decision on the grounds of unsuitability was that Dr Webberley does not understand or respect the demands of governance. In our view the reasons for Dr Webberley’s unsuitability were not due to local or geographical factors. This is demonstrated by the fact that she was not merely dismissive of the local health board (LHB) but was also dismissive of Health Investigation Wales (HIW) and the Care Quality Commission (CQC).

14.Dr Webberley makes the point that the MPTS will make a decision on her position on the Medical Register (from which she is currently suspended on an interim basis) so a national disqualification from the MPL is not necessary. In our view this misses the point which we explained in our substantive decision at [108]. Whatever the ultimate decision of the MPTS may be as to her fitness to practice as a registered medical practitioner, Dr Webberley’s future potential ability to be included in an NHS performers list (as opposed to her registration as a medical practitioner) is governed by the Performers Regulations. We found that she is not suitable to be an NHS performer on the MPL.

15.If a decision for national disqualification is not made Dr Webberley, (if she retains her position on the Medical Register), would be free to apply for inclusion in the lists maintained for medical performers by different local health boards in Wales, or to the national medical performers list in England. Whilst there would clearly be grounds for refusal to include by reason of our substantive decision that she is unsuitable for inclusion in the Respondent’s (local) list, the fact is that applications for inclusion inevitably absorb time and resources. In our view it is contrary to the public interest in the efficiency of the NHS that resources should be spent in the procedural requirements to consider and respond to an application from an unsuitable performer. Further, a refusal to include generates an automatic right of appeal which, if made, would then have to be redetermined on its merits. Any appeal generates resource demands and expense. Costs do not follow the event in this jurisdiction and the ability to claim seek costs is restricted.

  1. We weighed the impact of an order for national disqualification as an NHS performer upon the interests of Dr Webberley against the public interest, which includes the protection of patients and the efficient use of NHS resources. We re satisfied that in all the circumstances it is fair, reasonable and proportionate to make a direction for national disqualification.

17.We therefore direct that Dr Webberley is nationally disqualified from:
• the supplementary lists prepared by each Local Health Board,
• the lists under section 49 prepared by each Local Health Board,
• the lists corresponding to the lists under section 49 prepared by
each Local Health Board by virtue of regulations made under
section 103,
• the lists corresponding to the lists mentioned above prepared by
the National Health Service Commissioning Board under or by virtue of the National Health Service Act 2006.

Period for Review

  1. The practical effect of regulation 19(1) of the Performers Lists Regulations 2004, (as amended by the National Health Service (Performers Lists) (Wales) (Amendment) Regulations 2006), is that the review period for national disqualification is extended to five years if the First-Tier Tribunal states that it is of the opinion that the professional conduct of the performer is such that there “is no realistic prospect” of a request for review before the end of the period of two years being successful. This is a high threshold.

21.We have reviewed all the material before us. We noted that there were no issues regarding the Appellant’s integrity or candour or her attitude to governance when she practiced at the Blaina surgery, delivering ordinary services as an NHS GP. It is apparent from our substantive decision that issues regarding her suitability arose after she decided to focus her professional life in the provision of on-line services in the private sector. Whilst it is clear from our decision that we were (and remain) wholly unimpressed by her lack of integrity and candour and her entrenched attitude to governance, it is not, in our view, fanciful to envisage that Dr Webberley might yet develop appropriate insight. Experience in regulation informs us that the possibility of future remediation or rehabilitation should not be lightly discarded: people do change. We bear in mind also that Dr Webberley is relatively young in terms of her professional life. In our view it is at least possible that Dr Webberley could develop appropriate insight in future and could provide evidence of remediation or rehabilitation at a review. In this context we do not consider it appropriate to effectively preclude the possibility of any review by the Tribunal before the end of a period of five years.

Decision

23.(1) We have made a direction for national disqualification.
(2) We do not consider it fair, just or proportionate to express the opinion that the professional conduct of the performer is such that there is no realistic prospect of a further review being successful within the period specified in Regulation 18A(8)(a).

Rights of Review and/or Appeal

  1. The Appellant is hereby notified of the right to appeal this decision under section 11 of the Tribunals Courts and Enforcement Act 2007. She also has the right to seek a review of this decision under section 9 of that Act. Pursuant to paragraph 46 of the Tribunal Procedure (First- tier Tribunal) Health, Education and Social Care Chamber) Rules 2008 (SI 2008/2699) a person seeking permission to appeal must make a written application to the Tribunal no later than 28 days after the date that this decision was sent to the person making the application for review and/or permission to appeal.

Tribunal Judge Siobhan Goodrich
Primary Health Lists
First-tier Tribunal (Health Education and Social Care)
Date Issued: 23 January 2019

KatvonHostileExtremist · 28/05/2019 08:14

Appellant’s attitude is one of “entrenched resistance to regulation” and “highly coloured by her lack of integrity and candour.”

Have Mermaids still got the link to Gender GP ?

Makes me so cross

Needmoresleep · 28/05/2019 12:23

This is worth noting:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48102578

A transwoman who had a sudden and nasty reaction to hormones.

Also in Wales, though presumably no links to the Webberleys. The message is that hormones are serious drugs and should only be taken under expert care. And that the Royal College of GPs is right to support members who do not feel confident in leading on the treatment of TG patients.

R0wantrees · 28/05/2019 12:43

A transwoman who had a sudden and nasty reaction to hormones.

A male had a sudden and nasty reaction to being given cross sex hormones.

R0wantrees · 28/05/2019 12:47

@MoleSmokes

THank you for sharing such an important document.

Might you start a new thread to discuss Dr Helen Webberley's tribunal conclusions?

THis is a very serious Duty of Care failing.
THose who have been recommending and promoting Dr Helen Webberly since the judgement are complicit in colluding with a negligent medical practitioner.

It seems important that people are aware and as this thread names her husband, it risks being hidden.

R0wantrees · 28/05/2019 14:30

Wales Online article:
'Doctor who ran illegal transgender clinic offering sex-change hormones to kids moves business abroad
Helen Webberley said the clinic offers "life-saving" care which is not available anywhere else in the UK'
(extract)
A doctor who ran an unlicensed transgender clinic which gave sex-change hormones to children as young as 12 is to move her online service to Spain to continue operating.

Helen Webberley, of Abergavenny, was fined £12,000 in December 2018 after being found guilty of illegally providing healthcare services from her home under the firm Online GP Services Ltd.

It was found that between March 2017 and February 2018, the firm had operated without a licence after it was refused by watchdog Healthcare Inspectorate Wales.

During that time, Dr Webberley gave hormones to children as young as 12 after being denied treatment on the NHS, and offered advice online to patients looking to undergo gender reassignment.

But the doctor, who was given an interim suspension by the General Medical Council in November 2018, is to move online clinic GenderGP run by her and her husband Mike Webberley to Malaga to allow their 1600 patients to continue to receive treatment." (continues)

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/helen-mike-webberley-gender-gp-16297750?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

2rebecca · 28/05/2019 21:02

I wonder if the TRAs have shot themselves in the foot by campaigning to get being trans no longer being a psychiatric illness of gender dysphoria by the WHO. If it isn't an illness why should doctors get involved? Much doctors are sceptical of all the cod science of the trans religion. It's not coincidence that the head of Tavistock Polly Carmichael is a psychologist not a medical doctor.
Doctors treat illnesses. If you haven't an illness you don't need a doctor.

MoleSmokes · 29/05/2019 15:14

@R0wantrees Thank you for the advice - I wasn't sure if another Webberley thread would confuse things. I will start a new thread by copying and pasting that Tribunal Decision post and will include a link back to the original mentioning that it was first posted in this thread.

I will also mention that there is lot of info about the Webberley's businesses in this thread - that was VERY revealing.

Also interesting that, according to the Tribunal, Helen Webberley's conduct and professionalism is not called into question when she was working as an NHS GP but that everything seemed to go to pot when the multiple online-prescribing companies shenanigans started up.

R0wantrees · 29/05/2019 15:24

Mole Thanks so much.

Dr Helen Webberley and Dr Mike Webberley are of course married as well as being business partners however as individual doctors any professional sanction is specific to their professional practice.

As they have moved their online clinic/business 'GenderGP' to Spain threads need to be linked for those interested/concerned.

Also interesting that, according to the Tribunal, Helen Webberley's conduct and professionalism is not called into question when she was working as an NHS GP but that everything seemed to go to pot when the multiple online-prescribing companies shenanigans started up.

Is there a timeline to confirm when Dr Mike Webberley left NHS hospital practice to go all in with the online business?

ThePurportedDoctoress · 29/05/2019 17:13

Is there a timeline to confirm when Dr Mike Webberley left NHS hospital practice to go all in with the online business?

He was still at Nevill Hall Hospital in Dec 2015, can't find a later record. www.cancerservicesdirectory.wales.nhs.uk/aneurin-bevan-health-board-nevill-hall-h-1
In June 2016 he pops up as consultant gastroenterologist for Medichecks.com, where Helen Webberley was medical director
www.medichecks.com/blog/fatty-liver-and-abnormal-liver-tests

MoleSmokes · 30/05/2019 13:25

I have created a new thread to help pull together info about Dr Helen Webberley and Dr Mike Webberley as their business interests seem to be inextricably linked - for how long that has been the case is not (yet?) clear.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3598778-Dr-Helen-and-Dr-Mike-Webberley-matters-of-public-record

@ThePurportedDoctoress I had a look for the same info on Dr Mike Webberley yesterday and, like you, could not find any record of him working for the NHS after 2015.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 30/05/2019 14:17

I wonder if the TRAs have shot themselves in the foot by campaigning to get being trans no longer being a psychiatric illness of gender dysphoria by the WHO. If it isn't an illness why should doctors get involved?

Well, TRAs don't generally seem to be people who are dysphoric..tend to be the 'femae penis' lot. So they don't care one bit that support for transsexual people is being stripped away because they aren't transsexual themselves.

I find it quite shocking tbh, that dysphoria has been removed from the list of mental illnesses..is it just sex dysphoria..or other types too like anorexia?

Cristine · 03/06/2019 19:35

The reports are confusing, If I had an impacted wisdom tooth I would'nt go to see a hairdresser who sometimes did pedicures. The GMC is quite clear and there are procedures laid out in Health guidelines and in the GRA, that GP's should refer these patients to a Gender Clinic, GP's should certainly not prescribe hormone treatments unless instructed to do so by the Clinic after exhaustive consultations. The long term effects of HRT can be irreversible and damaging especially if the patient also has a genetic condition, this is why Clinics do blood tests and in some cases full genetic DNA scrutiny. The thought of children being giving hormone therapy without close supervision is dangerous to say the least.

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