Foster children (3 and 7) transitioning. Times article

[Igneococcus]

Don't think there is a thread yet:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-tangled-case-of-the-brothers-who-became-girls-aged-seven-and-three-dq7spwkdq?shareToken=70b8e4ed3bbe70db44d94b44731e6355

Of course there could be parallels to David Challenor and the repeated parental concerns about the children's health. But equally could the fault lie with a wider society who provide lottery funding for Mermaids et al to deliver support to families with an unhappy child showing signs of gender non-conformity. Where do they go? If the child also shows sign of autism the NAS will direct them to Mermaids. Stonewall et al trained schools, social workers, etc will steer them in the same direction. Many therapists will advocate affirmative action only. Virtually none of our politicians are speaking out, Penny Maudant's promised enquiry seems to have hit the buffers, and the Lottery (ie us) has just given £500,000 to Mermaids to support such families.

The key focus should be on trans lobbyists & also the 'gender identity' doctors who seem to have operated outside usual safeguards & review.

see threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3541908-Regulatory-capture

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3463920-Lets-go-back-to-2007

They have a

Here's another troubling case that came up very recently. April 2019.

In Ireland about a looked after child who now identifies as transgender.

www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IECA/2019/CA109.html

Seems to cover a lot of the themes that we are now seeing.

"The reports observe that G. only attacked female staff members. It was considered that G. is more compliant in relation to male staff than female staff members. G. started to wear makeup at Christmas 2015. At that time, she was sharing a house with a young person who was transgendered. From that time onward G. insists that she identifies as a female and wants to undergo gender reassignment surgery".

39. A risk assessment report was prepared by Ms. Allan of the Tavistock and Portman NHS in March 2017. A view was taken that whilst on paper G. presented as ticking all the correct boxes for gender dysphoria, there was a lack of affect in the way G. described her gender difficulties, as though she was reciting from something she had learned.

AND FCs are under obligations to promote the kids' identity (which often comes down to ethnicity), so I don't see how they can just get away with totally overturning their identity.

Rainatnight
There are toolkits created for social care workers, foster parents & children in care which have been created by TRAs.

Just as with education, there has been significant influence by some adults with single interest in transrights who are not informed by child development, Safeguarding or Child Protection expertise.

see thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3324578-Vunerabilities-of-Looked-After-Children-Social-Work-CP-restricted-by-affirmation-requirement-Trans-Youth-in-Care-Toolkit

Here's another troubling case that came up very recently. April 2019.

In Ireland about a looked after child who now identifies as transgender.

The impact of extreme abuse in childhood should be evident in that case.

Wow, I had no idea. Like LAC don't have enough problems.

R0, exactly.

I obviously don’t know the facts. But one credible scenario could be that the family were supported by someone like Mermaids the first time round. Then when the foster child shows signs of gender non-conformity, they seek advice from the same experts.

However supporting a small child who has been through trauma is amazingly complex. And, though seemingly unacknowledged by the NAS and others, gender non-conformity can be a symptom not a cause.

It may be, and I really don’t know, that these foster parents have done their best and followed advice given. And that Social Services, post placement and in the light of reports from the school and elsewhere, have had a second more critical look.

The interesting information would be:

1. Who convinced the parents to go to court when they did not need to, especially as it probably won’t prove to be in the interests of them, their children or their foster children. (I bet the article zipped round the class Fb page faster than it reached here.)

1. Who paid, and who found the lawyers and experts.

I am not saying that these are ‘good’ foster parents. I am just saying that they may be ok, and willing to listen to and follow advice. I am, however, saying that it is all too easy for parents to be offered advice based on the Stonewall narrative. This is a clear issue. And vulnerable children are the victims.

A risk assessment report was prepared by Ms. Allan of the Tavistock and Portman NHS in March 2017. A view was taken that whilst on paper G. presented as ticking all the correct boxes for gender dysphoria, there was a lack of affect in the way G. described her gender difficulties, as though she was reciting from something she had learned

The potential impact of extreme abuse/neglect & trauma by adults on a very young child:

20. A risk assessment report dated March 2017 from Patricia Allan, child and adolescent psychotherapist, of the Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust offers some limited insights into the dysfunctional family dynamic of G.'s early childhood years. The author expresses the professional assessment that the care received by G. from her parents was "absent, unreliable, perhaps intrusive at times, cruel and probably difficult to predict or understand. The people with the means to care for [her] - [her] parents - were the same people who at times harmed [her] by withholding care or being sadistic in their interactions with [her]. A child in this situation cannot afford to attack their carer or lose them. In order to survive the baby…had to find a way to collude with this perverse parenting, and thereby to internalise it." The mother had not been permitted to hold or soothe G. when she cried, according to the report.

21. The said report suggests that it is possible G.'s mother was her "only source of benign interaction." The report continues: - "According to the history on this case, [G.] witnessed [her] father emotionally, physically and sexually abuse [her] mother. [She] too was alleged to have been emotionally and physically abused by [her] father… It seems likely that becoming father's apprentice meant that [G.] avoided being the direct target of father's abuse, however it also meant [she] had to attack her only source of comfort. In order to protect [herself], [G.] had to attack mother. This would have involved strengthening [her] identification with a cruel and sadistic father and weakening [her] identification with a collapsed but at times benign mother."

22. The professional assessment was that G. "…did not attack mother because of [her] own violent feelings towards her, but was enacting [her] father's rage and cruelty. [She] was being violent ‘to order' which, over time, would have a traumatic, brutalising effect, creating an association between cold violence and survival and a disassociation between what [she] was doing and the impact [her] actions were having on [her] victim." (continues)

NB:
"6. G. is now seventeen years old. Born male, G. has from the aged of fifteen self-identified as a transgender person male to female. Accordingly, at the express behest of G., female gender pronouns are utilised throughout this judgment."

I was wondering why on earth GIDs / Tavistock weren't seen as the experts, but then it occurred to me that the whole trans ideology, especially regarding children, is opinion dressed up as scientific fact.

This woman's opinion, due to the fact she also worked with intersex patients, and with endocrinologists was taken as expert fact.

She undoubtedly believes it herself as scientific fact.

There is no other condition where physically healthy children are put on a path to be given drugs that will damage their long term health and physical development. Especially where it's fully possible to 'treat' with no drugs at all.

I also note that Lancashire County Council is the first LA, according to the piece by Debbie Hayton in the TES this week to in 2014 change its advice regarding toilet use by "trans children and young people." Same year as the Trans Inclusion Schools Toolkit by Allsorts and Brighton/ Hove CC.

According to the article , Cornwall Council, the Intercom Trust (?) and Devon and Cornwall Police developed the well respected Cornwall Guidance in 2012. This was very cautious around the obvious safeguarding issues for sex based rights of girls and was promoted by the DFE and GIDS.

I find the Lancashire bit pertinent to this.

(If you can buy the TES this week, published 10/5/19 to read the article please do it's very good but paywalled.)

That leaves me with troubled in the same way as various family court papers on the Challenors did. Again seemingly a weird family dynamic with a dominant father.

Sorry, to be clear (I'm also listening to the woman's hour piece)

Cornwall Guidance 2012 apparently was respectful to females as well as pupils questioning identity and had safeguarding at its heart.

Lancashire and Brighton councils changed things in 2014 towards more affirmative guidance and the erosion of female rights.

Wow, I had no idea. Like LAC don't have enough problems.

Rainatnight

Absolutely, they are the most vulnerable children & especially at risk from many consequences of transactivism.
Its a really serious Corporate Parent failing & yet few people seem to engage in any depth with the potential impacts on these children & young people.

I'm utterly agog at the details I'm reading here.

Again seemingly a weird family dynamic with a dominant father.

An abusive, dangerous, toxic family dynamic with a dangerous abusive father.

Its really important not to minimise abuse.

Its really important not to minimise abuse.

Especially when the abuse perpetrated by the man includes the sexual abuse of children.

Let's hypothetically fast forward seven years or so: child H becomes a teenager, with all the usual sexual awakening that entails (or is the poor child going to be on puberty blockers before then?)

1. Child H, outwardly presenting as a girl, finds themselves attracted to boys. ie. child H is gay. Male peers who are gay are unlikely to be attracted to a 'girl'.

1. Child H, outwardly presenting as a girl, finds themselves attracted to girls. ie. child H is heterosexual. Female peers who are heterosexual are unlikely to be attracted to a 'girl'; female peers who are lesbian are unlikely to be attracted to someone with a penis.

Where does that leave child H? I would suggest depressed and confused. What an awful prospect to inflict on any child.

Placemarking. I have nothing useful to add, I'm still struggling with the idea that decision makers and experts are discussing a 3-year-old's 'transition' like it's an actual biological process similar to metamorphosis. These threads are very helpful and informative.

I was wondering why on earth GIDs / Tavistock weren't seen as the experts, but then it occurred to me that the whole trans ideology, especially regarding children, is opinion dressed up as scientific fact.

There is criteria for who is an 'expert witness' in such cases.
The list will have been agreed by all parties & it may well be that this 'gender identity' doctor was one that all agreed to.

Its possible (for example) that it might be seen as a potential conflict of interests if Tavistock had involvement with the family etc

In other cases professionals from the Tavistock may well provide the 'expert' testimony.

R0, I don’t disagree. Just wary of deletions or causing MN problems by posting anything too direct. By pointing out what seem to me to be parallels, I am expecting others to come to their own conclusions.

I will say though that I consider the Stonewall/Mermaids/Allsorts guidance to be dangerous, and that I consider organisations like the NAS and the NSPCC, and a number of our leading politicians, to be negligent by not applying the sort of critical scrutiny that good journalists on the Times and Spectator and Tavi medics have called for.

Blaming foster parents, PC Plod (or whatever the guy in the Humberside Police was called), Social Services, teachers etc might be unfair. They are operating in a minefield, with a real danger of be damned if they do and damned if they don’t. Yes those responsible for the care safety and welfare of vulnerable children absolutely need to centre the child’s needs, but it is easy to imagine scenarios where this is well nigh impossible. As the Times article illustrates.

I have nothing useful to add, I'm still struggling with the idea that decision makers and experts are discussing a 3-year-old's 'transition' like it's an actual biological process similar to metamorphosis.

The theory that a child has an innate 'gender identity' & so one which could become known to the child at a young age is an idea espoused by the founder of the Tavistock children's service Domenico Di Ceglie :

Tavistock GIDS website:

"The principles of the founder inform all of the work done by the clinic.

The GIDS was founded in 1989 and is one of the longest standing services for gender diverse children and young people in the world. Domenico Di Ceglie, who founded the service, wrote a set of therapeutic aims which we still abide by today. This includes the unconditional acceptance and respect for young people’s gender identity. We do not therefore take a view regarding the outcome of an individual’s gender identity development: rather, our focus is to provide a space for exploration of gender, to ameliorate any negative impacts on general development and to work with young people to think through all the options open to them. These principles remain central to the delivery of the service." (continues)

tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/about-us/news/stories/our-gender-identity-development-service/

These poor children are being raised on lies. I do hope there is a chance for them to escape from this somehow. I've seen video clips of children in the US, one as young as 8, talking about the surgery they will have when older. This little boy was living as a girl and seemed terrified of the idea of surgery but also spoke of how it has to be this way so he can be a 'proper girl' (I'm paraphrasing).

No child should have to think about major surgery, of course it happens for medical reasons but why would any parent encourage elective surgery like this, why would it even be discussed?

They will need some serious mental health support throughout their lives as well as all the synthetic hormones. I feel for them I really do.

Needmoresleep

What you are seeing are some of the many consequences of long term damage to Safeguarding frameworks by transactivism.

This case is hugely significant to recognise the full extent of the damage & horrifying (though not surprising) when one considers the wider implications.

I just can’t read this. It is state authorised child @buse. I am so angry.

I was reading The Cornwall Guidance last night and it's mostly very sensible - it recommends the use of third spaces for trans kids and also how to make these third spaces non othering and stigmatising (i.e. having a mixed sex extra toilet rather than telling them to use the disabled toilet). It also has a small case study from a trans child specifically saying they prefer that option, that they felt uncomfortable using the toilet for their "acquired gender", and that they found teachers well intentioned efforts to make them use such toilets upsetting. Ditto sleeping arrangements on residential trips. For sports it repeatedly uses the phrase "common sense approach" - boys of 11 probably wont have an advantage over girls in football, boys of 15 probably will, boys of 15 who have been on hormone blockers since 11 probably won't etc. Basically take it case by case and use common sense. Specifically addresses the need to consider other students not just the trans child. The only bits that were iffy to me was the confidentiality bit which still seemed to endorse secretly supporting a child without involving the parents, and the further support appendix which gives Mermaids, Gires, GI etc as contacts, and further reading suggestions like Alex Drummonds wanky autobiography.

Needmoresleep - Then when the foster child shows signs of gender non-conformity ...

The first time concerns were raised, H would have been less than 2 years old:

In August 2013 an anonymous referral received by the local authority from a member of the extended family under the heading 'preoccupation with and encouragement of gender dysphoria in 3 children'.

This is firmly in 'unpopping the poppers on a onesie' territory.

I am horrified that only three months after these concerns were raised, H and C were both transferred from LAC to SGO.

Even without the foster children, that family has multiple challenges.

The mother has chronic health problems.

The 17 year old has a medical condition, referenced in the report.

The 13 year old has multiple medical and neurodivergent issues, as well as the gender identity issues.

How can any parents cope with this and care for a further three younger children who have multiple health and developmental issues, according to the parents? The number of accidents referenced in the report is very concerning, because they point to a family struggling to cope at the very least. And 'struggling to cope' is the very best slant that you could put on it.

I realise that these were not the issues before the judge, but you can't help but feel that the family will stagger on for a while and then the younger children will be removed. At an age when they will be very difficult to place elsewhere.