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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Paying for swimming lessons in a block/ periods

498 replies

Aquifolium · 07/05/2019 22:25

Hi,

My daughter’s have attended swimming lessons at the local pool for many years. Their attendance has always been spot on. Now they have started their periods they are missing one or 2 sessions a month.
I have contacted the manager to ask if there has been any thought out into this phenomenon, and the reply is of course, they can use tampons, which are perfectly safe.

I wasn’t addressing this issue in a ‘what are you going to do about it’ kind of way, but the dismissive response I have had from the manager has pissed me off.
I feel that my daughters are at a disadvantage now, and that I am paying out for lessons (block booking only)they can’t take up.
Has anyone else done anything about this issue before? Got anywhere?
TIA

OP posts:
Contraceptionismyfriend · 08/05/2019 10:21

It's a period.
It happens and will happen every month unless something like contraception happens.

I'm so so grateful that my mum never made a big deal of it and just showed me the products in a really relaxed matter of fact way and left me to it.

Now I don't believe I'm a victim and get on with my life.

CharlieParley · 08/05/2019 10:22

Must admit I am also surprised and dismayed at the vitriol directed at the OP. And the disrespect for the girls' stated boundaries.

Yes, there are some 12 year-old girls for whom tampons are an option and yes athletes intent on competing will do whatever it takes to minimise disruption. Taking the pill is not just one way to do this, it is actually one of the main ways menstruation can be managed (by for instance taking the pill in a way that stops periods altogether).

However, as Jessica says above, messing with the endocrine system of grown women is not without risk, and that risk is much larger for preteen and early teen girls.

As for whether or not this is a feminist issue. This is a booking system based on the default: the average healthy male. If default males had regularly occurring downtimes when they could not attend a monthly session, you bet your bottom dollar flexible schedules such as described by PP would be the norm.

Systemic oppression and structural discrimination are also expressed in standards that do not ever take the needs of a particular group into account.

Take for instance hand dryers in public toilets, automatic towel rolls, soap dispensers or taps. Many of those use sensors that are blind to anything other than the standard Caucasian skin tones. Thus, many POC find that these devices do not work for them. Were they designed to prevent POC from using them? Of course not. But the designers did not take them into account because their default customer is white and that's who they designed these for.

A system which disadvantages entire groups of people is a system of inequality.

That's what we have in this schedule. Because the default is also the healthy male, these scheduling and booking conventions also discriminate against swimmers with disabilities who may miss sessions regularly due to their health, such as needing to attend monthly clinic appointments for instance.

Acknowledging that systems based on the average healthy male may not suit the needs of other groups is neither ridiculous nor does it make a mockery of feminist issues.

This is the feminist issue - that we live in a system geared towards meeting the needs of males. Designed by and for males, governed by and for males and regulated by and for males.

Menstruation is a regularly occurring biological function of the average healthy female. If we didn't live in a patriarchy, swimming schedules would take this into account. And by now we would have found an equitable solution that met the needs of customer and provider. They do exist as we can see from a number of suggestions in this thread. Some will be financially more viable than others. No equitable solution will require young girls to insert a foreign object into their body when this is not what they wish or to medicalise them unnecessarily.

As my mother always says, where there is a will, there is a way. The OP has come here to ask whether there is a way to address an issue that only girls and women qua females can ever face - that of losing out financially because of a standard biological function of our bodies.

Is it a huge issue? On a par with the worst transgressions against females? No. But systemic oppression and structural discrimination are made up of a multitude of factors, many of which are small issues like this one. This is a feminist board, not a huge-issues-only-feminist board, so I do think it is a discussion that belongs in this space.

Fazackerley · 08/05/2019 10:23

How women on a feminism board can feel like they can tell young girls they should shove foreign objects up their vaginas is beyond me

I'm actually mildly embarrassed that I'd spend my time on a board where people say things like this. Thread hidden and not before time.

Yabbers · 08/05/2019 10:23

I want to teach my kids that the things that affect them are important. I want them to know that they can question the way things are and not just live life subject to disadvantage.
Are you also going to teach them they can reduce their disadvantage by not being ridiculously against using perfectly safe products which can help them get on with their daily lives?

Will you be telling them not to take pain meds for cramps, just take the day off, tuck yourself up in bed then sue your employer because they don’t make reasonable adjustments, giving you three days off a week?

There are so many real injustices they will actually face. Whining over stuff that is avoidable will not do them any favours.

Yoursilentface · 08/05/2019 10:25

I think it's more of an issue that women and girls are so squeemish about their own vaginas that they won't use a tampon or think it's inappropriate for a child to use a tampon.

Aquifolium · 08/05/2019 10:29

Thank you Jessica, for your comments. I am not a regular poster on here, and you have challenged people’s comments in ways I might not have thought of.

I don’t think the pool offer private lessons. The pool schedule is very full, and there is always a waiting list for the classes, as there is so much demand.

I think my older daughter will quit swimming and use the gym instead now that she is old enough.

I will discuss my dd2’s options with her, and see what she wants to do next.

OP posts:
WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 08/05/2019 10:31

I'm not squeamish about my vagina, but I still don't like using tampons. And I should be able to choose what I shove up my vagina without being penalised for it.

Some people really don't like girls being taught about having their boundaries respected, do they? It's not considered important at all.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 08/05/2019 10:32

Yoursilentface nobody said it’s ‘inappropriate’! I love it when people misrepresent what’s been said. It’s also really poor form to be dismissive at how long it takes for young girls to get used to their bodies enough to use tampons and feel comfortable with that. Some get their periods as young as 8. Also do read the full thread, plenty of grown women saying they can’t use them. Not all vaginas are the same. Not all periods are the same.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 08/05/2019 10:32

perfectly safe products not safe actually, nothing is 100% of course, but let’s not dismiss TSS altogether. I reduce my own risk of it by using menstrual cups I sterilise every time I empty them.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 08/05/2019 10:33

Some people really don't like girls being taught about having their boundaries respected, do they?

Indeed. Use a tampon or else we will ridicule you. Just wow.

SleepingSloth · 08/05/2019 10:33

OP Would this affect many others though?I've personally never known any child have swimming lessons over the age of 10 and most have had lessons between age 3 and 8. Obviously some girls start their periods at 8, but I think the average age is 12, when I presume most kids having stopped having lessons.

I don't think anything can be done about this but obviously there's no harm in putting forward a suggestion to the pool.

Yabbers · 08/05/2019 10:34

@WeepingWillowWeepingWino

Nonsense. They have a choice. They are choosing to disadvantage themselves and want someone else to pay for that.

Aquifolium · 08/05/2019 10:38

My girls are not squeamish about their vaginas. They may choose, at some point to use tampons, when they are ready. I will not pressure them to do so, and I feel sad that there are so many posts on here who are unsympathetic to my standpoint.

They have excellent attendance at all other activities, and school, and I am not allowing them to use periods as an excuse.

As I have mentioned, their attendance at swimming was excellent until they started their periods.

OP posts:
Aquifolium · 08/05/2019 10:45

Sleeping Sloth,

I wonder if there is in fact a connection between the age of stopping swimming and starting periods? Perhaps the pools don’t run classes because they can’t get enough people of that age to sign up?

Our pool says they are trying to develop swimming for teenagers and to provide swimming for fun and fitness for that age group, instead of just the usual competitive/ lifeguard routes.

My girls have friends who also miss lessons regularly. I don’t know beyond our pool, how big an issue this is. But the managers should have the information to be able to find out, if they were interested.

OP posts:
Aquifolium · 08/05/2019 10:48

Charley Parley,

Thank you for your well thought through post. I may read some of it to my dd’s.

You have taken the time to outline the concerns which I had not articulated so clearly in really strong and clear language. Thank you for taking the time to do so.

OP posts:
LangCleg · 08/05/2019 10:48

If we didn't live in a patriarchy, swimming schedules would take this into account. And by now we would have found an equitable solution that met the needs of customer and provider.

I mean, fucks fucking sake, how is this not fucking obvious?

Nofunkingworriesmate · 08/05/2019 10:49

Why is a period stopping activity?
It’s 2019 Think what messsge you are giving your daughter, would you let her miss l because of her period ? Tell her all the girls/ women are using them or cups?
Get ones with applicator and use lots of Vaseline. Be a feminist role model and stop thus nonsense
The policy at my daughters school is periods don’t stop swimming

LangCleg · 08/05/2019 10:52

Aquifolium - this page has some supportive, encouraging advice that your daughters might feel better for reading, although it doesn't address your payments issue.

www.knixteen.com/blogs/the-rag/swimming-on-your-period

WomaninBoots · 08/05/2019 10:52

Excellent post CharlieParley

I find it interesting that the OP has created such an angry sounding "use tampons FGS" type backlash.

SleepingSloth · 08/05/2019 10:55

I wonder if there is in fact a connection between the age of stopping swimming and starting periods?

Maybe, although both boys and girls that I know seem to have stopped having lessons well before 12. I think they stop because they can swim well.

Our pool says they are trying to develop swimming for teenagers and to provide swimming for fun and fitness for that age group, instead of just the usual competitive/ lifeguard routes.

I think this probably gives you more of a chance of getting the manager to take any suggestions on board. If you don't ask, you don't get.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 08/05/2019 11:01

Be a feminist role model and stop thus nonsense

Bore off.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 08/05/2019 11:01

excellent post, charley and I'd like to highlight this in particular:

No equitable solution will require young girls to insert a foreign object into their body when this is not what they wish or to medicalise them unnecessarily.

SleepingSloth · 08/05/2019 11:02

Nofunkingworriesmate

Periods sometimes do stop activity though. Either because they are heavy or because of pain. I actually think we need to get away from the 'you need to carry on regardless' crap and move more towards understanding that periods are a 'reason' and not an 'excuse' for sometimes missing school, work, activities etc.

Think what messsge you are giving your daughter, would you let her miss l because of her period ?

i think it's far more damaging to tell girls/women that they have to carry on. Great if you can but many suffer with heavy and painful periods.

englishdictionary · 08/05/2019 11:05

Oh that made me spit out my tea!! Are you for real? What the hell do you think women are oppressed by if not our biology? Our lady thoughts? Dear lord

You spat out your tea because I mentioned the biology is not the responsibility of the swim school?

No one is being oppressed here, that's a ridiculous jump. The girls have choices.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 08/05/2019 11:08

englishdictionary

No no, what you SAID was ‘it’s biology not feminism’. Feminism is all about female biology as that’s why we are oppressed.

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