Paying for swimming lessons in a block/ periods

[Aquifolium]

Hi,

My daughter’s have attended swimming lessons at the local pool for many years. Their attendance has always been spot on. Now they have started their periods they are missing one or 2 sessions a month.
I have contacted the manager to ask if there has been any thought out into this phenomenon, and the reply is of course, they can use tampons, which are perfectly safe.

I wasn’t addressing this issue in a ‘what are you going to do about it’ kind of way, but the dismissive response I have had from the manager has pissed me off.
I feel that my daughters are at a disadvantage now, and that I am paying out for lessons (block booking only)they can’t take up.
Has anyone else done anything about this issue before? Got anywhere?
TIA

The whole point of the post is to discuss the unfairness of the ‘options’ of missing out and paying for it.

And what is being advocated by some on here is for everyone to pay for it, including those who have to miss lessons for health reasons (which you seem to want to discount from the discussion). So those people will not only continue to miss lessons and lose their money, they will be paying more for the privilege.

Then others still will have to miss out entirely because they can't afford the increased fees. So some girls will be better off at the expense of others who will be worse off or miss out completely.

Is that what feminism is about?

I see where you are coming from OP. I am sure if men had periods the swimming session rules would be different!

E.g. Buying a carnet of 10 sessions and using them as and when, or paying individually each time you actually go. Loads of businesses run on models like this. They manage to forecast/budget etc.

I just don’t think you can have it both ways.

Either boys and girls are equal and can all swim at all times of the month and will not pay less if they choose not to swim some days (whether due to illness or otherwise) OR girls have a right not to use tampons and not swim because of their period which means they are differentiated from who boys do not have that same choice OR everyone should just be able to pick and choose when they swim and pay accordingly in which case you’d pay for individual lessons 🤔

But surely you can only claim that it's a feminist issue if it only affects girls and women, which it doesn't.

Periods only affect women and girls. A wider consideration involving other disadvantaged groups would be up to the council or swim school to discuss, this is specifically about a feminist issue.

Either boys and girls are equal

They’re not. Everyone isn’t exactly the same. The misconception feminism is about ‘equality’, as if we should seek to be equal to men, is a frustration. We have very different life experiences based on our sex. Boys do not have a menstrual cycle, do not get pregnant, do not give childbirth or experience menopause. So rather than saying we should be treated equally, it’s a question of equity or equal opportunity. The OP raises an interesting question around swimming prepay booked in advance classes, which do seem to have a different impact on females. Worth discussing even if we don’t create a perfect solution right here right now.

I don't see that though.

There are a finite number of sessions available. In order to be viable the provider has to ensure that every slot is filled by a paying customer. There has been no attempt to disadvantage girls has there? And in fact many girls won't be disadvantaged by the system.

I guess one solution is just to stop offering lessons. Which will no doubt happen when it becomes unviable to run. Then everyone is equally disadvantaged.

JessicaWakefieldSV so by that token you could use the argument -

‘Why can’t I pay a smaller fee on my pool membership as I can only swim 21 days out of 28’

So should all females be subsidised even though the greater majority will happily use tampons to account for the few who won’t?

" In order to be viable the provider has to ensure that every slot is filled by a paying customer "

Only because they have set up their business model like that. If it was centred around people who have periods instead of people who don't, they would have a different system.

E.g. at the GP, when you book in for a smear, you get flexibility on dates because of periods. If you book in for anything else, you don't.

So explain how this can work then?

Most pools are hired out for the lessons. So they have say 6 teachers there for an hour and X number of students per teacher.

In order to meet overheads they have to "sell" every slot. But in your model they have to have surplus slots plus run lessons on more than one day, or extend the term or let you pay as you go which might mean on some days too few students go to meet overheads.

It isn't like the GP where if you cancel your slot they can offer it to someone else at short notice.

Feminism is about thinking about the needs of women from a woman's point of view. But at the same time if feminism is only for the privileged then its not really improving society for economically disadvantaged girls, is it?

Thats the seed of political backlash against feminism.

Inequality can only be tackled if you identify where it occurs along other fault lines within society, otherwise those fault lines can be exploited by nefarious types who do not believe in rights for any vulnerable group at all.

You can not separate feminism from the wider plane of inequality for this reason, because women's rights are always going to be vulnerable and at risk of erosion under certain conditions.

Women's rights have to walk hand in hand with rights for ALL vulnerable groups otherwise they expose themselves to the risk of being undermined.

Lessons are pre paid because people will not show up. The teachers wages need to be secured. The costs of running the pool needs to be secured.

No funds, no pool, no fucker swims.

No the council will not have funds to send to girls who choose not to swim because they are on a period. And frankly the money if there was any spare needs sending to rape crisis centres, child protection services, women’s health services, homeless accommodation.

This is not feminism. Countless solutions have been offered. It just boils down to - ‘I want special treatment because I bleed every month’

Only because they have set up their business model like that. If it was centred around people who have periods instead of people who don't, they would have a different system

E.g. at the GP, when you book in for a smear, you get flexibility on dates because of periods. If you book in for anything else, you don't

Oh stop it. This has gotta be a joke right???

This "feminist issue" doesn't affect all girls though does it. So many posters have pointed this out and been ignored. It doesn't affect girls who have already learned to swim and don't need formal lessons anymore, it doesn't affect girls who are happy to use tampons or period swimwear, it doesn't affect girls who haven't started their periods yet. This is not a universal problem or disadvantage. It's a preference.

It affects girls as a class in a way that it doesn’t affect boys as a class.

And the suggestion that this issue that affects some girls should be heavily subsidised by councils that can't keep their services running to a safe level and can't protect the most vulnerable in our society would be laughable if it wasn't so distressing.

A GP can operate only from a surgery where they have the equipment to do the job. And yesterday there was a lot in the news about how more GPS are leaving the system than joining. Flexibility over appointments might be necessary but if there are less GP surgeries and less GPs, you will end up with women getting smears less often. Ideally everyone should get a service which is flexible and prompt but the reality is there is going to be a strain on the system, so women are more likely to be prioritised in someway and women who don't attend because of periods are going to find it hard to get a rearranged appointment in future.

And that's the nature of the problem of offering flexibility over swimming lessons - it's not about whether it's the ideal solution. It's about the fact there are certain pressures on those services and the facilities / labour required to carry that out.

It has to therefore be seen through the prism of economics, existence of facilities as well as a feminist point of view.

It can not be an issue that is seen in isolation because that's just idealism which does not exist in reality.

Yes planning could be done differently in the long term but that's going to take huge political shifts on economic policy across the whole of society. And this particular issue is somewhat down the priority list even from a purely idealistic feminist POV. It has to be.

As it only affects girls and women yes of course it's a feminist issue. It doesn't matter that its not all girls and its relatively trivial. There isn't a qualifying score!

If there are conflicting interests with other groups, then that's important to address in the debate but it really not feminists' job to represent everybody. Practical and cost aspects of course are part of life but that shouldn't shut down the debate. Preventing knife crime seems almost impossible given the police budgets but it doesn't mean we don't want to prevent knife crime because its too expensive and will take money away from X or Y.

To quote Jurassic Park "We were so busy thinking about what we could do, we didn't stop to think about what we should"

To me this is a debate about the "shoulds" - and if enough people feel its important then maybe more effort money and time can be diverted into what "could" be possible.

It affects girls as a class in a way that it doesn’t affect boys as a class

Well males don’t have periods - yes I agree there but that’s about it

I refuse to see my period as a disability when swimming.

And nobody is saying you should. Are they?

So what option do you choose

Cancel all lessons as they are no longer viable financially

Or

Continue as they currently are?

Well yes as your expecting extra provisions on the basis that it’s discriminating females on their periods. It doesn’t.

Alyssa I think that little bit money would be more useful if used towards giving free sanpro tbh rather than creating extra lessons or imaginary time slots.

But now we’re down to Jurassic park quotes and likening very important and essential life saving smear tests to recreational swimming so I’m off.

Good night god bless.

I choose the option of not deciding that because there are no easy solutions we should just say there isn’t an issue at all.

It costs council, companies, organisations money all over the show to make their buildings accessible for all. Regardless of the cost, it is the right thing to do, because it addresses and corrects a structural inequality. I bet you anything you like there were people saying the exact thing people are saying here when it was suggested they should do this. What a good thing people like that were overridden.

It may not happen now, or this year or any time soon, but hopefully at some point in the future ‘male’ will cease to be the default, thanks to the actions of feminists who won’t let this lie. And the naysayers will be looked back on with eyebrows raised that anyone could be so dense as to not understand what the right thing to do was.

Please explain how "male" is the default here?

Surely it is down to affordability and viability of a finite resource?

If they offer flexibility they will have to run with spare capacity. That will cost money. And why are you only considering swimming? What about ballet, gymnastics, tennis...? Are you proposing subsidising/ increasing prices for all sports?

As it only affects girls and women yes of course it's a feminist issue. It doesn't matter that its not all girls and its relatively trivial. There isn't a qualifying score!

Exactly. Rape doesn’t affect all women and girls but it’s certainly a feminist issue. It’s weird that some can’t see this.

Exactly. Rape doesn’t affect all women and girls but it’s certainly a feminist issue. It’s weird that some can’t see this.

I honestly don't know where to start with this issue being compared to smears and rape. Rape affects all women and girls because all are at risk.

Not all girls and women are disadvanted by their periods. Not all teenage girls need weekly swimming lessons. There are viable options available. Taking money from desperate services for this is the least reasonable of those options.