No gym for me

[Orchidoptic]

Phoned up Dudley gyms as had sudden urge to get fit without a long contract.
“Yes, yes, the changing areas are sex separated”
“can men who say they are women use the female changing areas”
“its discriminatory not to allow this” “even if the Equality Act says it is acceptable to separate in changing areas”
“its discriminatory not to allow them in”
“even though they probably still have penises”
“its discriminatory not to allow this”
“what about discriminating against women and girls?”
“...”

Like I say, I don't expect anything rational out of people whose best argument is to go on and on about how I must be a man and declaring me stupid. Which says it all really. I'm not in the least lacking in intelligence and I am a woman. And I don't agree with you. I think you are being hugely prejudiced. You are also very much in the minority view, if you think a significant proportion of the population is going to boycott the gym because of these nebulous sneaky rapists you are all but imagining.

You are also very much in the minority view, if you think a significant proportion of the population is going to boycott the gym because of these nebulous sneaky rapists you are all but imagining.

Then you have nothing to worry about. So why are you here?

if you think a significant proportion of the population is going to boycott the gym because of these nebulous sneaky rapists you are all but imagining.

I can assure you, the vast majority of women I would guess somewhere around 99% of us do not want to get undressed among penises belonging to strangers, or even belonging to male friends and family. Most decent men, too, do not want it.
100% of fathers of daughters do not want it.

And I repeat: it's not about sneaky rapists. It's about sneaky changes of rules allowing males with penises into women's areas so that most women don't even know the rules have changed and could at any moment be surprised by a burly man naked in the communal shower.
If you are a woman, and you like this, then you can surely use the open third space shower room that we are advocating. Nobody will mind. But you cannot tell us what to do and what we should do.

Trust me: this is going to get loud, very loud, as the word spreads.

You've got yourselves a nice little echo chamber going on in FWR. Frankly, you're not hearing the views of ordinary people in here any longer, because who wants to try and put across their views to a party of people who immediately break out into personal attacks? Who can be bothered with you any longer? But after reading something so clearly ludicrous and actually very offensive, both to people I do and don't know, I think it's only right to pipe up and say something, even if it means pages and pages of being accused of having a penis. And by the way, although you think having a penis must be the worst crime in the world, I'm not actually bothered and I think it's a silly own goal of an insult.

Don't refuse to go to the gym because of this. It's cutting your nose off to spite your face. Trans people are not going to hurt you.

You are also very much in the minority view, if you think a significant proportion of the population is going to boycott the gym

One wonders why so many gyms, in fact all of them, had single sex changing rooms at all. Why many of them have women only gym sessions. Why a good portion have women only swim sessions.

I mean, it's not like a commercial enterprise can ever identify a need and capitalise on it. Or, indeed, recognise that there are great swathes of women from religious communities who couldn't go unless it was female only.

But people who are obsessed with putting women down probably aren't the most commercially savvy.

Don't refuse to go to the gym because of this. It's cutting your nose off to spite your face. Trans people are not going to hurt you.

Would it really never occur to you to tell this to transwomen. Seriously. Tell transwomen to not refuse to go to the gym because they don't want to use the changing room!

I am an ordinary person

And the women I know are ordinary women

When I and they go into the single sex women’s changing room I and they expect that to be the truth

Single sex

Oh we aren’t a minority. Every survey, including one by pink news, proves that a significant majority of the general public agree with us. I know not a single person in real life, Male or female, who want mixed sex changing rooms, from teenagers to my elderly mother, we all say the same thing: NO.

veronica

I'm afraid you can't blame people thinking you're not over bright when you're incapable of answering even the simplest of questions, the smallest of concerns.

For instance, give me one single, solitary benefit that adult, mixed sex changing rooms provide for women?

You are also very much in the minority view, if you think a significant proportion of the population is going to boycott the gym because of these nebulous sneaky rapists you are all but imagining.
T
Veronica, you seem to be advocating mixed sex changing rooms and denying the existence of rapists and other perverts who might use them. Is this really your argument or have I misunderstood?

Who can be bothered with you any longer?

Well you, apparently - can't keep away can you?

Is this really your argument or have I misunderstood?

You've got it.

Also men don't perve on women, male dominance/sexual assault is entirely dependent upon how you look, anyone here who has been intimidated by a man in a changing room is lying, and indeed, sexist, and this is a viewpoint held by almost everyone.

In a nutshell.

@Veronica

Engage with us then.
Many on this board seek to understand your opinions. But you won't answer questions.

Do you hand on heart believe that there should be no sex segregation in gyms, hospital wards, prison cells, school changing rooms?

I do wonder, if FWR is an echo chamber and we are the last holdouts in an otherwise enlightened land, why bother? Life is precious and short, why waste it on the stragglers lurking in the dark corners, trying to drag them into the light, when you could walk in the sunshine and glory in your righteousness?

If we had a personal connection and remaining in darkness brought pariah status or put us on a path straight to hell or prison, I would understand it, but a few complete strangers on the internet?

No, the only way this effort makes sense is if one has become ever more desperate at us spreading the light about the darkness at the heart of this movement, about the dire consequences for women and girls when our sex-based rights are abolished.

When one can see that us shining a light on this poisonous ideology prevents it from succeeding and when one has identified that the light is coming from here, where we show women not just the light but also how to pass it on so that others can shine it into every corner, only then it makes sense to come here and try to persuade us to switch the light off.

Exactly charley. This isn't an echo chamber and no one thinks it is.

Quite apart from it being populated by 12 million people and this being one of the most popular boards, it's relentlessly targeted to shut it up.

If it was harmless that would be pointless.

Spot on CharlieParley - it's why SH, AH et al are so hellbent on shutting down our voices.

When one can see that us shining a light on this poisonous ideology prevents it from succeeding and when one has identified that the light is coming from here, where we show women not just the light but also how to pass it on so that others can shine it into every corner, only then it makes sense to come here and try to persuade us to switch the light off.

Nailed it CharleyParley. Absolutely nailed it.

And that light is passing quietly from hand to hand amongst all the lurkers.

VeronicaDinner
Please tell me where you want people (women, children and men) to go who cannot share toilets and undress in front of the opposite sex for religious / faith reasons? In this world of equality and tolerance and inclusion, I have yet to find any answer to this that is not; "they can go somewhere else"

Looking forward to an answer.

PUUUUUULLLLLLLL!

Here comes the sun...

Looking forward to an answer

She wont admit she just doesnt think women have the right to say no to the penis.

This Veronica person is either a man or very, very young and woke, like about 18.
I remember being 18 very well. You think you know everything and you think everyone over 30 is old and stupid...
The hubris is ginormous.
All I can say is: they too will grow up, calm down, and learn common sense.

One last question though: Veronica, how do you feel about men sharing changing rooms and being naked together with 13, 14, 15 year old girls? Be honest, now. Even if it's difficult.

Like moths to a flame.

This isn't an anti-trans echo chamber and neither are the other social media networks and channels Veronica. There are many many women quietly getting on with these discussions out of view, with others occasionally going public and sometimes paying the price for their 'heresy'. I can understand why you might believe them to be isolated spots of dissent given the propensity of TRA & allies to use block lists and forcing silence of women, but you'd be mistaken. We're not silenced here, that's the difference, and it perhaps explains why you're surprised to read us.

Most will be happy to chat with you but you have to do so much better than "omg you called me stupid, YOU'RE STUPID" ffs 😄

I don't agree with you. I think you are being hugely prejudiced.

That's your prerogative. You're welcome to say that. But not to say it without being disagreed with and other people putting their views: that isn't a reasonable expectation. People disagreeing with you isn't shutting you down, that's what discussion consists of. You might also wish to consider why women here are emphatic, angry and short of patience.

I don't agree with you either, and I think you are being hugely naïve, prejudiced, dismissive of and discriminatory against women, women of faith, women with cultures and religious beliefs, women of disability, women who hold the belief that people can't change sex, women who want and need privacy from male bodied people, and women who say no to having their boundaries and right to single sex spaces massively overturned and shut down.

That's my prerogative. Two way thing. Equality is about everyones needs being met and valued, and solutions found that work for all.