No gym for me

[Orchidoptic]

Phoned up Dudley gyms as had sudden urge to get fit without a long contract.
“Yes, yes, the changing areas are sex separated”
“can men who say they are women use the female changing areas”
“its discriminatory not to allow this” “even if the Equality Act says it is acceptable to separate in changing areas”
“its discriminatory not to allow them in”
“even though they probably still have penises”
“its discriminatory not to allow this”
“what about discriminating against women and girls?”
“...”

BTW, I said in the post that didn't go through that this was in a hotel leisure club I joined today.
It had separate changing and shower rooms for men and women, open-spaced and without cubicles for changing, but cubicles for showering, with curtains. It was mostly over-60 women there today (an aqua-fit class!) and they were all happily undressing and getting naked in the changing room. No separate areas for shows and no-shoes; lockers with codes.

A while back I read another MNer post that if self ID becomes a thing that she'll start using the gents facilities as chances are that's not where the weirdos and predators will be hanging out. I think she's right.

That's occurred to me too. The sort of male bodied individuals who insist on using a changing room where they know they are making the women there feel deeply uncomfortable are kind of self-selecting as the kind of people I don't feel comfortable around.

(It's a kind of weird twist on Grouch's "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member")

Blaire White talking about sport and changing rooms.

Blaire White talking about sport and changing rooms.

Sorry about the double post.

Does anyone know where thegym chain stand on this stuff?

Blair White talks sense

Someones already made the point, but the type of man who would use the womens facilities 'because they can' is likely to be the type of man who shouldn't be within 100 feet of any woman ever.

I presume that those defending the rights of men to use womens facilities would be fine with being naked in the mens changing rooms?

MrsJamin

I think from this thread it was David Lloyd gyms that had the most women friendly policy

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3528336-David-Lloyd-changing-room-policy-in-Huffpost

From this Huffpost article
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/david-lloyd-trans-access-gym_uk_5c825491e4b0d9361626ec6c

Leading UK gym chain David Lloyd does not permit trans people to use changing rooms in line with the gender they identify with, unless they can produce a gender recognition certificate.

In a HuffPost UK analysis of several national gym chains and their policies on changing rooms – including Nuffield Health, PureGym, Everyone Active, EasyGym, The Gym Group and Virgin Active – David Lloyd was the only one to require this documentation from a trans person wishing to use the changing room for their identified gender.

I used to use a local gym fortnightly, to work with a trainer. I have severe rheumatoid arthritis, and got to the point where I was regularly falling because I’d stand up, and my hip/knee wouldn’t behave as expected and I’d face plant.

I found a trainer with experience of helping strengthen muscle to compensate such that I could regain some stability, and worked with him very successfully for 18 months- just 2 falls in that time.

A while ago, I finished my session and went to get changed. There was a middle aged man in the changing room, sitting in a pair of shorts and nothing else.

I told him he was in the wrong place, and he told me he was a woman and had the right to be there.

I grabbed my stuff and spoke to a member of staff on my way out. They agreed with him, and went as far as telling me that if I was so unkind as to deny him his right to be in the ladies changing room then I should find another gym and examine my bigotry (precise wording was “she is a woman, if you find you’re uncomfortable with changing in front of her then that’s your problem “). I should have argued but I was so thrown I just walked out.

You can believe or disbelieve as you wish.

For those who are rolling their eyes and saying it never happens, it DOES.

Sparkyduchess, that is sickening and I honestly don't get it. I am absolutely certain that the staff don't really believe that. I wonder if "she" threatened them beforehand, bullied them in some way? Threatened to write to the press if anyone made a fuss and they were asked to leave? That's the only way I can imagine this actually working -- that maybe they did some groundwork, told the manager or whoever that they expect compliance, and boom. How old were the staff members who spoke to you? What sex?
I suppose it's too late now, but this is a case where women need to kick up a fuss, go to the press, even the Daily Mail they suck up stories like this. If we just duck our heads and retreat it will get worse. It's been my nature really to not make a fuss when people are obnoxious but I think I've reached the limit of my tolerance. If it happened to me well, I don't know. I'm a woman and often we just swallow the injustices. That's why they get away with it.

If it happened to me -- well, I don't know. I'm a woman and often we just swallow the injustices. That's why they get away with it.

It's a difficult one. I hope I'd stick up for myself as I've put myself out there before. But in retrospect I'm much better at sticking up for others (which is another side of female socialization). I'm trying to prepare myself so that if I do have to stick up for women's rights I'm ready.

If it happens again I’d make a fuss. I was so shocked despite having been on FWR (mostly as a lurker) since Dittany saw where this was headed.

I’ve always seen myself as someone who will stand up for myself but as Prawn says, I realise I’m much better at standing up for others. I need to remind myself that if I’d stood up then it WOULD have been for young women like my goddaughters.

I’m out of fucks to give. I’m truly afraid of how quickly the relatively new and obviously fragile rights of women can be retracted.

Sorry Lamaha, just saw your question- staff were all Male, mid 20s at a guess. Manager was ‘unavailable’, the assistant manager was the person I spoke to. No female staff around at the time,

Hi there, sorry I meant to get on this but due to family illness have been put back. Will chase.

“she is a woman, if you find you’re uncomfortable with changing in front of her then that’s your problem “

Offs.

She is a woman - in what way? What is a woman for the purposes of your single sex changing?

Are all your changing facilities unisex and do you expect all women to change in front of male bodied people? Why not?

What is the difference between male bodied people in the men's facilities and the male bodied people in the women's facilities? Objectively? Why is it ok for me to be uncomfortable UNLESS the man self defines as a woman? Does my objective experience really have to be predicated on permission from a man's self image at the time? Why do you feel this is ok?

Why is my feelings of humiliation and invaded bodily privacy not only unimportant but offensive while this individuals feelings are of high importance? Why does this compassion extend only one way?

What arrangements have you made for women, such as me, whose person situation may include disabilities, faiths, cultures, history of assault and trauma, child safeguarding requirements and personal boundaries and privacy that mean they cannot simply switch off their feelings of discomfort and get their clothes off alongside a male who wishes to be there? Have you done an impact assessment? Who advised you on this policy? Are you aware that they are (inevitably) a political lobby group whose advice is partisan, and that this advice is not compliant with the Equality Act, Human Rights Act and safeguarding national policy? Did you check their qualifications to advise on policy affecting groups other than trans people before implementing this advice?

Can I just check that you are in fact telling me that any woman not willing to undress in front of a male bodied person regardless of their own protected characteristics, needs, distress and boundaries, will be excluded from your provision, and should not have access to gyms. Or public life. And that you think this is a good thing?

I often wonder -- what do these people's mums think of this whole business? I would be utterly mortified if my son behaved in that way.