No gym for me

[Orchidoptic]

Phoned up Dudley gyms as had sudden urge to get fit without a long contract.
“Yes, yes, the changing areas are sex separated”
“can men who say they are women use the female changing areas”
“its discriminatory not to allow this” “even if the Equality Act says it is acceptable to separate in changing areas”
“its discriminatory not to allow them in”
“even though they probably still have penises”
“its discriminatory not to allow this”
“what about discriminating against women and girls?”
“...”

Incidentally, pointing out that something won't work and is wrong because it massively distresses, disadvantages and excludes large sections of society isn't 'bigoted' or 'prejudiced'. How on earth can it be?

women of faith, women with cultures and religious beliefs, women of disability, women who hold the belief that people can't change sex, women who want and need privacy from male bodied people, and women who say no to having their boundaries and right to single sex spaces massively overturned and shut down.

Also incidentally - why don't these women matter as much as transwomen? I don't understand.

My rock has a little grey rock friend. They understand that sometimes it isn’t what could happen, but what has already happened.

There's a common pattern when TRAs and their allies argue on this and related topics, isn't there?

No matter how many times we explain that it's not merely that we fear assault, it's that (a) we do not want to be naked and vulnerable in front of any men (including our male relatives and friends whom we know are not going to assault us), (b) we know that predatory males can and will abuse a self-id system (for that is what these gyms are using now) and (c) this will prevent a fair number of women from ever accessing these facilities again (for a range of real reasons), they stick relentlessly to the same old responses:

• Transwomen are never pervs or rapists
• My friend is trans and is lovely, therefore they all are
• No man will abuse such a system
• You're a prude (even if you have specific trigger reasons)
• Men aren't interested in you
• Women assault too/what about lesbians then?

(Other stock responses are available).

But ask why transwomen can't just use the men's - and it's different for them, apparently, because suddenly - men are nasty.

Frankly, you're not hearing the views of ordinary people in here any longer

We are "ordinary people". HTH

I'll repeat what Jessica said above, with emphasis. I do not fear sexual assault. I DO NOT WANT TO SEE NAKED MEN. I DO NOT WANT TO GET UNDRESSED IN FRONT OF MEN. I do not want to use mixed sex changing rooms.

The poster you're addressing this to really seems to have trouble with respecting women's boundaries. Something she shares with many TRAs. The internalised misogyny she has is subtly different to their absolute contempt for women though. I won't post the appropriate meme which explains why she feels she should throw other women under the bus.

Also incidentally - why don't these women matter as much as transwomen? I don't understand.

Why doesn't every woman matter as much as an MTF trans person? Why are their feelings considered so much more important and serious than ours?

And we come back to the truth of it. No matter how much they say they are women and should access our spaces, they matter more because they are men.

And we come back to the truth of it. No matter how much they say they are women and should access our spaces, they matter more because they are men.

Sadly, that really is the ultimate truth behind this whole fiasco, isn't it? It comes back to the fact that they are men and they think they get to decide. They think they get to tell women what to do, to be kind, to make room for them.

But that game is over. They have gone too far with this. The obvious ridiculousness of the claim that some internal identity that nobody can actually define is enough to override biology -- well. Women won't have it, and I suspect a majority of men as well.

Trans people are not going to hurt you.

It's not about trans people it is about men.

Seems weird how you cannot understand that.

It's nothing to do with being precious. Look up the statistics on assaults against women. Look up what happens.

It's about NEEDING to feel safe. It's about women's rights being eroded and other women standing by and saying it's OK. It's about women being at the bottom of the pile yet again.

People saying the opposite, that it's about being 'precious' just come across as being completely uninformed. Look at the statistics about assaults on women in prisons from trans prisoners. Look at the statistics about assaults in PRIMARY SCHOOL on girls. It's horrifying.

www.tes.com/news/our-kids-were-raped-classmates-dfe-wont-listen

Read that.
And you wonder why women are scared of penises?
But oh no, it's women being 'precious'.

1 child being raped every day in school

Yeah but yeah but precious

"As young women, many of us are still in school and experience or witness sexual harassment from groping to cat calling on a daily basis. It's humiliating and frightening and affects what we wear, where we go, our body image and our confidence to speak out in class. Yet, it's often dismissed as 'banter' or a 'compliment' and we are told we are overreacting or being over sensitive.

People who dismiss the concerns of women and girls as 'precious' are 100% complicit in the culture that allows their rape and sexual harassment.

Remember that pool/spa in Scandinavia (was it Sweden?) that made the changing rooms unisex for a day to make everyone feel included? And, completely predictably, a group of men turned up to leer and ogle and made a lot of women very upset and uncomfortable?

We know what men will do if they are given the green light (and no, obviously NAMALT). We know it. There is no 'if' about it.

It's a clear sign of the misogyny of our culture that women can say until they are blue in the face that this will happen, this is happening, please listen to us. But still we are told is that we are being pathetic, that we have too high an opinion of ourselves if we think anyone wants to sexually harass us, that men would never behave like this, that we are delusional.

We know what men will do if they are given the green light (and no, obviously NAMALT). Weknowit. There is no 'if' about it

They know it too. It's why so many men opt out of parenting their children and wont take them anywhere .They hide behind these perverts

I won't post the appropriate meme which explains why she feels she should throw other women under the bus.

It wouldn't be "if I shit on other women with you, then will you treat me like I have value?" by any chance, would it?

I couldn't possibly comment!

Veronica you are missing so man points very spectacularly.

What about women who would be unable to then use changing facilities because of cultural reasons? Rape and abuse survivors? 12 year old girls sharing space with a man who may be semi/completely naked? Or just me, wanting to not see a man undressing? Should we all just suck it up because a man says he's a woman?

Protections put in place for the safety and dignity of women and girls are not yours to give away.

Why are you deliberately choosing not to acknowledge posters questions to you? You just seem oddly obsessed with men apparently not perving women in changing rooms. I'm sure it's not because you're just a GF ... oh, wait

A while back I read another MNer post that if self ID becomes a thing that she'll start using the gents facilities as chances are that's not where the weirdos and predators will be hanging out. I think she's right.

Should say "so many" not "so man".

For some reason it's not allowing me to post the sign.

This is what it says:

CHILDREN OVER 6 YEARS OF AGE MUST USE THE "SAME SEX" CHANGING FACILITIES.

Bolded, capital letters, underlined

And then:
Please be sensitive to the fact that young children in an open changing or shower room may embarrass some adult users, hence discretion should e exercised and due consideration shown by both the accompanying person and other adult users in the presence of a child.

I don't know that to make of this.

Ha! I was trying for ages to post that, and it wouldn't. And then I wrote something else, and it did. And then the post I posted, seems to have disappeared. And then this one posted. Don't know that is going on.

That's a weird one Lamaha - the kids will embarrass the adults? I mean sure they do on occasion but it sounds more of a warning to adults that there are kids around a so beware in case they look at you, point and laugh.

I'm please to see a sign that respects boundaries for kids though. Christ knows we need more of that.

That's a weird one Lamaha - the kids will embarrass the adults?

I know! I read the top bit first, walking past, and was all, hurrah! and then I stopped and read the bottom and it was, what the...?