No gym for me

[Orchidoptic]

Phoned up Dudley gyms as had sudden urge to get fit without a long contract.
“Yes, yes, the changing areas are sex separated”
“can men who say they are women use the female changing areas”
“its discriminatory not to allow this” “even if the Equality Act says it is acceptable to separate in changing areas”
“its discriminatory not to allow them in”
“even though they probably still have penises”
“its discriminatory not to allow this”
“what about discriminating against women and girls?”
“...”

veronica ta very much for your complete dismissal of my and any other women’s distress. I sorely hope that you never find yourself in the situation where you understand.

Don’t worry, my hangups about my destroyed body that no one would want to look at mean I can happily stay at home and do nothing to recover.

Suddenly stops shouting. No, if that's directed at me, what I meant was what I asked.

Only I can prove that they do. Rape figures are high. God knows what figures for men being aggressive twats to women and girls are, because of course men don't want us to talk about that.

as I understand it the concern is not genuine trans people but men who claim to identify as female, having had no hormone therapy or surgery, entering women's toilets and changing rooms as an opportunity to prey on victims

No. The concern is males, however they identify, being in women’s changing rooms and toilets, where we are naked and vulnerable. They’re SEX separated.

trans person goes off their beans and rapes me

Sigh. What about predatory men who claim they are trans? Or so predatory men not exist, or not go to extraordinary lengths to access women and children?

What about women who for reasons of trauma, religion, cannot be seen in a state of undress by males?

What about my fucking right to dignity and not to see seen naked by someone male?

@VeronicaDinner You are of course all aware, that the possibility that there might be male bodied people in the changing rooms means that women from several religious groups will no longer be allowed by their priests/imans/husbands/congregations to go to the gym? Ah, but of course, screw them. They don't deserve respect or rights as they are not male.

I have a standard reply to namalt - 'not all bacteria are pathogenic, but you still wash your hands'. I may have nicked that from a mumsnetter.

GLL would refer to the attached CIMSPA guidance on giving Trans People Access to Leisure Facilities, before making a decision on an individual case-by-case basis.

Regards,

Muir Forrest

National Safeguarding Manager

GLL (Greenwich Leisure Limited) is a charitable social enterprise

This is the response I got. For some reason, I can't read the attachment on my phone.

Yes, the nonsense idea that rapists are now putting on wigs to attack women. And just in case this extremely unlikely event was to happen, women shouldn't use the gym anymore. And that's a perfectly rational risk assessment, is it?

VeronicaDinner, as I understand it you have a friend who is trans who you have seen in their knickers and you didn't realise they were male bodied. Could it be that you are projecting your one experience on this discussion? That is not really a valid starting point. Also, you are very dismissive of women who do not really want to share facilities for whatever reason.
Single sex should be what it says it is: single sex. Or make it clear it is mixed sex, which gyms don't because look what happened when a gym was transparant and made it clear their facilities were mixed six and that included cross dressing males. Very open and transparant instead of fudging the language and hoping nobody notices...

I have a standard reply to namalt - 'not all bacteria are pathogenic, but you still wash your hands'. I may have nicked that from a mumsnetter

Brilliant!

Yes, the nonsense idea that rapists are now putting on wigs to attack women. And just in case this extremely unlikely event was to happen, women shouldn't use the gym anymore. And that's a perfectly rational risk assessment, is it?

Not nonsense, has actually happened. Also, transwomen are Male and have the same rate of sexual offending so the idea they’re not capable of offending is false. They’re males, they should be in the Male changing room. If gyms allow males in with girls and women, then yeah, perfectly valid risk assessment to avoid those gyms.

Ordinary people? Males who insist on invading female spaces where they’re naked, are not ordinary.

I'm female, as I've explained. Weirdly, we don't have a hive mind

Trans people are completely ordinary. They are not rapists. Can't believe you don't see how offensive that suggestion is.

It does happen. There have been reports of it happening.

Also, it isn't just rapists. Did you miss the bit about all the men who regularly get off on intimidating women and girls, and harassing them? I could not walk 1/2 a mile down a road without that as a teen.

You're right that it's a question of risk assessment. Every woman and girl has to do a risk assessment when they walk into an area alone with men. Just run that thought through in your head again.

You have no rights, no rights whatsoever, to tell any woman and girl, that their risk assessment is wrong when it is based on reality. All these things that you persist in telling us don't happen, happen.

So what it comes down to Veronica is why should we take that risk? Why is the male need for validation considered so much more important than our demonstrable and provable need for physical safety?

Yes, the nonsense idea that rapists are now putting on wigs to attack women

What are you on about? They don’t have to put on a wig. Nothing. Nada. They just have to utter the magic word, “identify” and stroll in. You sound very ignorant of what is going on. Perhaps you live in a lovely, middle-class privileged bubble where all men only have honourable intentions. Let’s hope you don’t have to learn the hard way, like lots of women do.

I am hardly offended by the opinion of someone who is clearly so far from being able to form a rational assessment of other people.

Venonica
The whole purpose of risk assessments, safeguarding and single sex facilities (along with privacy and decency) is because whilst these events may be rare, the impact is very serious .

We know that sexual predatory men (and nearly all sex offenders are male) have become teachers, doctors, priests, coaches, social workers, therapists, parents in order to gain access to women and children. So even if most trans people are not dangerous, the idea that some dangerous men would not self ID to go into women's changing areas, if they were unchallengeable, is ludicrous. How do you tell the difference?

One can regularly see photos on social media of people claiming to be trans taking selfies in women's changing rooms in US/Canada in which they are posing for their own sexual pleasure. This should not be happening at all. In practice we should keep any communal changing rooms separated by sex and have some mixed sex private cubicles for those who choose to use them

Trans people are completely ordinary. They are not rapists.

Tell that to Karen White's victims. Tell that to the 10 yo raped by the tw in the ladies in Scotland. Tell that to Davina Aytons victims.

Or did those things never happen?

And as for men not donning a wig to access someone to rape - hilarious. They do a damn site more than that love.

Yes, sure. Everyone who disagrees with you has a tiny brain. I just can't grasp big clever thoughts like you, can I? And I must be a man, mustn't I, if I don't agree with you?

Grow up.