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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Maya Forstater

689 replies

DianeBrewster · 05/05/2019 09:40

MN have deleted the thread started by Maya - who lost her job for speaking up for women- because it talks about her crowdfunding for legal costs

Here is today's times article on the case https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tax-expert-fired-for-saying-trans-women-aren-t-women-tpqgnm9vj?shareToken=3f12f5cae61c02fd41040eb816fd37b4&wgu=2705255426441557045162977940f0d76fa1&wgexpiry=1564821162&utmmsource=planit&utmmedium=affiliate&utmm_content=22278

OP posts:
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14
S1naidSucks · 05/05/2019 10:29

Oops. That comment of mine made little sense. 😳

JessicaWakefieldSV · 05/05/2019 10:29

@MNHQ I’m very frustrated at your position. Not even mentioning crowdfunding is not a rule, you allow it all the time. You are censoring depending how many non-members get upset. This is utterly insane.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 05/05/2019 10:30

Women need to hide their identities in order to partake in a democratic process without repercussions. Is this really your position?

Seems to be doesn’t it? Absurd.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/05/2019 10:30

'Could I be fired if I denied the existence of God and pointed out to a Christian co-worker that their beliefs were nonsense. I get that would probably be me being a dick, but that shouldn’t be a sackable offence.'

Thing is, this is worse than that - it isn't about anything Maya did or said in the office, or to a colleague. It's about calm, thoughtful, reasoned tweets made on her own social media in her own time.
It would be like being fired for saying in general, in your own time, that you don't believe in God, rather than to a Christian coworker.

LangCleg · 05/05/2019 10:30

It really would be better if everyone just steered clear of mentioning the crowdfunder at all if we're honest, if you want to preserve the thread.

WTAF?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 05/05/2019 10:31

It made sense to me sucks

Not that thats a good thing...or indeed that your post made sense now i think about it Hmm

OldCrone · 05/05/2019 10:31

A closer example would be an NHS doctor posting they supported Charlie Guard's parents.

So would they have been fired just for saying this? Should they have been fired just for saying this, in your opinion?

Michelleoftheresistance · 05/05/2019 10:31

Could I be fired if I denied the existence of God and pointed out to a Christian co-worker that their beliefs were nonsense

Just to point out: do a quick search on the many threads where Christian MNetters are ridiculed with comments like 'sky fairies' and 'invisible friend' free of all moderation. Try reporting one, and HQ will be pleased to tell you about robust discussion being a pillar of MN.

S1naidSucks · 05/05/2019 10:33

Anyone disses santa on mumsnet and im gonna report the shit out of them

Too right. How dare they not believe that a fat man in a suit can’t squeeze down a chimney. Actually, any man that identifies as Santa should be permitted into your child’s bedroom. Come to think of it, how do they know Santa was a man? We could have been misgendering Santa for all these centuries! Oh the inhumanity of it all! Poor Santa. 😭

goes of to lie down

Deliriumoftheendless · 05/05/2019 10:33

Rufus-
That’s fair 😄

Bluestitch · 05/05/2019 10:34

If you are high profile and employed you need to be careful posting opinions that are contrary to your employer

This was a democratic process and an invited discussion. Should an employer be allowed to sack someone for publicly posting that they voted Brexit, if they disagree?

GreenEggsHamandChips · 05/05/2019 10:34

I suggested to you on the other thread just before it was deleted that you should read up on some history, and see where we end up if freedom of speech is denied.

What like the American Revolution where most of the influential men were publishing stuff under pseudonyms because they didnt want what they posted to come and bite them in the butt....

Women need to hide their identities in order to partake in a democratic process without repercussions

Men and women have been doing it for thousands of years. Freedom of speech it balanced by your responsibility for what ypu put out there

Michelleoftheresistance · 05/05/2019 10:37

The Monitors are Watching.......

'The Monitors'.... please. A bunch of creepy individuals choose to stalk this board constantly, trying to coercively control women by exploiting both the posting guidelines and pressure on HQ to the nth degree.

It's sad, it's revolting, it's deeply misogynistic and it's symptomatic of why this whole situation has gone so very wrong. The last thing stalking misogynists need is titles that smooth over the reality of their choices.

Bluestitch · 05/05/2019 10:37

Men and women have been doing it for thousands of years.

Not sure if you missed it but there was a select committee this very week on acknowledging the disproportionate way in which women are both abused and silenced in online discussion.

LangCleg · 05/05/2019 10:37

Women need to hide their identities in order to partake in a democratic process without repercussions. Is this really your position?

It would seem so. During the period of a government consultation on this specific topic.

Amazing, really, the reaches people will go to to prevent discussion of women's rights and social power dynamics, isn't it?

Always good to remember that women control about 80% of UK household spending. Can't think quite why that may be germane here, but it's certainly worth emphasising.

80%. That's eighty percent.

S1naidSucks · 05/05/2019 10:38

Reads comments from GreenEggsHamandChips goes off to empty savings jar.

For crying out loud Green, I’m supposed to be saving for a house makeover. Give me a break.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 05/05/2019 10:39

Always good to remember that women control about 80% of UK household spending.

A very important fact. Entirely relevant too.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/05/2019 10:40

'A closer example would be an NHS doctor posting they supported Charlie Guard's parents.'

That's a specific case involving particular individuals in a conflicted relationship with the organisation in question. Very different from discussing the ideas in abstract, which was what Maya was doing.

Datun · 05/05/2019 10:41

Men and women have been doing it for thousands of years. Freedom of speech it balanced by your responsibility for what ypu put out there

Which is why Maya is going to court. She stands by what she says, as do millions of other women.

If maintaining the category of women, and refuting that magic words can make you change sex, is being 'responsible for what you say', then let's shout it from the rooftops.

Bluestitch · 05/05/2019 10:41

Freedom of speech it balanced by your responsibility for what ypu put out there

During a public consultation. Greeneggs can I ask- do you think Maya would have lost her job if she had concluded that transwomen were women and posted such?

OldCrone · 05/05/2019 10:42

GreenEggs
Do you think it's a positive thing for people to feel they have to hide behind pseudonyms? Why do you think this? Why are you against freedom of speech? Do you think we would be better off under a dictatorship where freedom of speech was not allowed?

Datun · 05/05/2019 10:42

Very different from discussing the ideas in abstract, which was what Maya was doing.

Which the government had invited women everywhere to do. They were expecting speculation over the implications of the GRA. They're telling the electorate to talk about it for fuck's sake.

Datun · 05/05/2019 10:44

TheCountessofFitzdotterel

I was agreeing with you there. Me getting frustrated was over green.

PencilsInSpace · 05/05/2019 10:44

I support Maya. She has done nothing wrong. She has done nothing irresponsible. I am pleased to see so much support for her. I think she has a strong case and the outcome will affect all our rights.

littlbrowndog · 05/05/2019 10:44

Yeah twitter was just called to account for the way they treat women

Ffs. Why do we hav3 to hid3 when violent tweets stay up that endorse violence against women

With you maya 💪💪