Maya Forstater

[DianeBrewster]

MN have deleted the thread started by Maya - who lost her job for speaking up for women- because it talks about her crowdfunding for legal costs

Here is today's times article on the case https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tax-expert-fired-for-saying-trans-women-aren-t-women-tpqgnm9vj?shareToken=3f12f5cae61c02fd41040eb816fd37b4&wgu=2705255426441557045162977940f0d76fa1&wgexpiry=1564821162&utmmsource=planit&utmmedium=affiliate&utmm_content=22278

So if there is a clash of beliefs, the one that isn't aligned with material fact should be prioritised, and the holder of the other one should be punished.....?

The feelings of the one with the belief that isn't based on material reality should be protected, while the feelings of the person who believes that facts matter can be hurt with impunity.....?

I never, ever, thought I would be writing that in the 21st century.

It's reminiscent of the Inquisition.

Delurking to add support for Maya. This is such an important case.

"In an email, a CGD manager said: “You stated that a man’s internal feeling that he is a woman has no basis in material reality. A lot of people would find that offensive and exclusionary.”

It's pretty offensive and exclusionary to suggest that the reality of being a woman can be reduced to a feeling in a man's head.

Datun, me too.

I was getting stick in that thread for not agreeing with the general opinion, it feels a bit depressing 😣 There is no law that saya all women have to see things in exactly the same way, and we have to be able to say what we think without being accused of plopping. That's like being accused of transphobia for not conforming to the TWAW belief.

Here is Maya’s twitter: mobile.twitter.com/MForstater

Unbelievable. What about women finding it distressing to be told that they are no longer entitled to their own sex classification? What about it being exclusionary to remove women from their jobs because they have a point of view?

Maya I back you wholeheartedly. I’ll pursue the links away from this thread to offer further support.

It must be very frustrating for the professional genderists whose Patreon accounts raise £2.50 over weeks to see a woman fighting for women's rights raise thousands within a couple of hours.

Oh this is just so ridiculous

Obviously i back Maya

When someone holding perfectly rational, normal, widely held views that:

• It is not possible to change sex,

• That it is a major concern that women's rights will have to be deleted to provide men with the opportunity to live their 'authentic self' without any boundaries

• There is something very morally and ethically wrong with forcing compelled speech, compelled acting out of a belief you do not hold with punishment for those failing to conform

• That people refusing to act out this belief lose their entitlement to jobs, to safety, to freedom from threat and violence, to services and to equal recourse to law:

• That when a 'belief' has to be compelled under threat of and demonstration of punishment, secretive changes behind closed doors to avoid the electorate knowing, policy and law brought in by stealth, children taught that their parents are wrong (see: 'raised with non conforming LGBT beliefs' as recently stated) and an electorate massively not naturally holding and driving this change of belief and culture (see: gay marriage)

…...something has gone massively wrong. And people need to look at the bloody history books and start considering, if they don't care about basic right and wrong, or human and civil rights, and equality, and women - what they personally stand to lose at the ballot box when the electorate finally see this in plain sight.

This came upon my Facebook feed just now and I thought it was quite apposite.

However I wonder which group actually did the reporting and who have most to lose from women acting together in solidarity

Looking at the email from MNHQ, it shows just how panicked that group are becoming, Angryresister. That anger and full on attack shows just how right we are and how they know we will continue this good fight. Courages calls to courage.

Thank you for all your reports about that post - we've now deleted the entire thread.

I've had to hit the chocolate after reading that email. Still at least we now have written confirmation that a man's feelings really are viewed as more important than material reality. So there's that.

TL:DR: Bloody well done Maya, and thank you.

There was a link to the crowdfunder in the thread, Hairy, but MN could have just deleted the link. I don't see why the whole thread had to come down. If women are losing their jobs just for discussing changes to the law, where will that lead?

My flabber is well and truly gasted.

Good luck, I can’t believe this is going to court though. Such utter nonsense.

I'd love to donate but funds are a little tight this month - shitty maternity pay

Jesus, so many posts about the thread. I do wonder why?

Donated.

This is utterly fucking ridiculous, that women are not allowed to exist as a separate entity to men? Fuck that shit.

Yeah I’m not impressed the entire thread was removed by MNHQ.

It's pretty offensive and exclusionary to suggest that the reality of being a woman can be reduced to a feeling in a man's head.

Too bloody right.

Tell me: if subjective internal feelings are prioritised over material reality, what challenge does this provide to extant power structures? No challenge. Because the subjective feelings of anyone who already has control of power structures will be privileged. And so it came to pass: the subjective inner feelings of heterosexual, mostly white, mostly class-privileged males are taking precedence over the hundred year struggle for women's rights.

Genderism is a regressive, power-protecting, sexist, libertarian ideology.

Maya's case illustrates this perfectly.

Morning all. As stated in the original deletion message, we deleted the other thread because we don't allow folk to promote crowdfunding on our talk boards, to protect the interest of MNers - and we've contacted the OP of that thread directly to explain why it was deleted.

So long as there is no mention of crowdfunding or encouragement towards the crowdfunding page on this thread, it can stand for now.

Thanks everyone.

I know TheBullshitGoesOn, £2.50 verses £12320. I would almost feel sorry for them. Not really. I’m not a fantasist.

Thank you for all your reports about that post - we've now deleted the entire thread

Still pisses me off that mumsnet invited non members/twitter people to complain

Reminds me of our old next door neighbour who complained to FIL if we didnt mow our lawn...twat

The feelings of the one with the belief that isn't based on material reality should be protected, while the feelings of the person who believes that facts matter can be hurt with impunity.....?

I really hope that isn't how the EA is being used. People have the right to believe in God. People also have the right to say there is no god.

People have the right to believe that they can change sex (pure fantasy, but they have the right to hold that belief). People also have the right to say that people can't change sex (truth, and scientific fact).

I was up to seventeen quid for a naysayer contribution to that-which-shall-not-be-named, in case anybody else forgot to keep count!

who have most to lose from women acting together in solidarity

Second rage this week when women dare to organise to support another woman accessing the law, thereby lessening the financial punishment the TRA lobby hope will be inflicted.

It's rather like rage at passing a woman a snorkel as she's strapped onto the ducking stool.

Exactly, OldCrone! Who decided one set of beliefs should have priority over another, and on whose say so?