Maya Forstater

[DianeBrewster]

MN have deleted the thread started by Maya - who lost her job for speaking up for women- because it talks about her crowdfunding for legal costs

Here is today's times article on the case https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tax-expert-fired-for-saying-trans-women-aren-t-women-tpqgnm9vj?shareToken=3f12f5cae61c02fd41040eb816fd37b4&wgu=2705255426441557045162977940f0d76fa1&wgexpiry=1564821162&utmmsource=planit&utmmedium=affiliate&utmm_content=22278

MNHQ why not just delete the posts relating to the crowd finder and let the rest stand? This is now being covered by The Times after all. The story is very much out in the public domain.

So long as there is no mention of crowdfunding or encouragement towards the crowdfunding page on this thread, it can stand for now.

Crowdfunding is mentioned all the time on MN, I have never seen a Jean Hatchet link removed. I understand that the recipient shouldn’t promote or that a thread linking is not allowed, but mere mentioning is completely heavy handed. Added to that that anyone can report posts, including those you know troll the feminism boards, and I’m very disappointed at @MNHQ for allowing this sort of coercive control.

I get why the post was deleted. If you post within a community to post to that communities rule.

I have friends who work withing the NHS. They post lots of NHS supporting posts. If they suddenly started posting " the NHS is wasteful and a crock of shit type posts" i cant imagine their employment would look too fondly on it.

With freedom of speech comes responsibility.

Its a shame Maya dudnt think how her public posting in her own name might impact on her work.

or encouragement towards the crowdfunding page on this thread, it can stand for now.

What do you class as encouragement towards, MNHQ? That’s a very broad umbrella. Is it simply discussing how much has been raised, talking about the amount, the fact that she has one, the fact that we have individually donated? I’m not very good at being subtle, so I don’t want to get it wrong and end up accidentally bringing this page down.

What happens if ploppers try to sabotage this page by deliberately going against your rules? How can you tell the difference?

Going to report my own comment to bring to your attention.

It can stand 'for now'?

God. Woman seeks her right to freedom from discrimination under British law.

Somehow that's become so shocking it may have to be deleted.

What the hell happened to this country?!

Did Maya tweet 'The CGD are a crock of shit' Greeneggs? I missed that part of the story!

MNHQ why not just delete the posts relating to the crowd finder and let the rest stand?

Because just about every post on that thread was about raising the crowdfunding profile. Not very subtly either. I suspect thos one will go poof now too

As gender is a belief that one is a specific gender that mau or may not match reality, then I would say Maya is right to tackle it from that angle. In law you are entitled to belief or to not believe, I am very much a gender atheist, I believe gender is based on ridiculous stereotypes that I and many others simply do not conform to. I do not and cannot ever imagine belief ing that a man can be a woman and vice versa, it is simply not possible to change sex.

I'm currently doubled up in pain feeling like someone's twisting a knife in my uterus. I will never agree to pretend that men can magically turn into women no matter how tinkly their laugh or dainty their walk or pretty their dress. They can never understand what it truly means to be a woman.

I stand with Maya.

Bluestitch

That was an extreme example. When your job is contributing opinion you need to think carefully about anything you put in the public domain under your own name

I might go for a tenner per deleted thread for something completely in my head and nothing to do with anything anywhere elsewhere on the net at all.

It was a nonsensical example. A more accurate comparison would be an NHS worker being sacked for saying they don't belief in God, or that the earth is flat.

I was up to seventeen quid for a naysayer contribution to that-which-shall-not-be-named, in case anybody else forgot to keep count!

Thank you Lang. I was going to ask you for change of a £20, but I dare say I’ll not need to break it.

This was during a public consultation, that the government invited the public to discuss!

I agree, that there are plenty of other threads where crowdfunders are mentioned, that do not get pulled. Jean Hatchet's is one, but there have been others.

I'm guessing the crucial difference is that nobody has aggressively bombarded MNHQ with threats for those, to the point where they feel glad of an excuse to remove the thread.

MNHQ please retain your backbone.

So long as there is no mention of crowdfunding or encouragement towards the crowdfunding page on this thread, it can stand for now.

It can stand for now!!! WTF? So long as there is no mention of crowdfunding it can stand is what you meant surely? It's a thread about a woman's rights on FWR.

I spoke too soon LangCleg. At this rate I’ll not even bother asking for change for a £50. 😁 I’m loving this game, even though taking up golf might turn out to be less expensive, at this rate!

I’m sorry to derail (briefly) but if it is decided a belief is more important than reality and jobs can be lost over stating disagreement (I’m not feeling too confident about the justice system at the moment) how far could this be extended? Could I be fired if I denied the existence of God and pointed out to a Christian co-worker that their beliefs were nonsense. I get that would probably be me being a dick, but that shouldn’t be a sackable offence.

Will ask for this to be deleted if anyone thinks this is not appropriate here.

GreenEggs

I suggested to you on the other thread just before it was deleted that you should read up on some history, and see where we end up if freedom of speech is denied.

Just wanted to post again in support again seeing as the other thread has disappeared, which is deeply disappointing - I mean delete the links by all means but we’re not aloud to mention crowdfunding??? That’s ridiculous. Silencing women.

Anyway. I sent Maya 10 supports, and am very impressed that the target of 10,000 supports was smashed in less than 90 minutes. The level of support this has is worth talking about, as well as the details of the case itself.

Green you appear to be saying that if women want to discuss sex based oppression, biological reality and the potential impact of proposed law changes about which the government have invited discussion, they should have to do so anonymously. And if they don't, then they only have themselves to blame if they are penalised to the extent of losing their job. Women need to hide their identities in order to partake in a democratic process without repercussions. Is this really your position?

I just got this response, in response to my question for clarification, from MNHQ, if anyone is interested.

Thanks for the report and for asking the question. We won't allow any links to the crowdfunder or any specific posts asking people to go to it. We will delete any posts breaking TGs in this way. It really would be better if everyone just steered clear of mentioning the crowdfunder at all if we're honest, if you want to preserve the thread.

The Monitors are Watching.......

delerium

Put it this way

Anyone disses santa on mumsnet and im gonna report the shit out of them

In indeed it was a nonsense example. A closer example would be an NHS doctor posting they supported Charlie Guard's parents. A belief in the earth being flat or otherwise isnt really a detriment to the NHS.

The example doesn't matter a huge amount. You could have picked goodness knows how many examples of various levels of nonsense, including your own. If you are high profile and employed you need to be careful posting opinions that are contrary to your employer