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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Swansea Pride

146 replies

OVAgroundWOMBlingfree · 04/05/2019 12:16

Has anyone seen the Get The L Out women at Swansea Pride today?
twitter.com/objectuk/status/1124626303938965504?s=21

The police have removed lesbians from the event for stating what women don’t have penises.

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thatdamnwoman · 04/05/2019 15:48

BasilFaulty, when you say things like this:

Do you have any sources for this? Because I find it very hard to believe that any officers would ever have the time to receive such training!

you lose your credibility. PC Mansoor Gul of Humberside police told Harry Miller: “I’ve been on a course and what you need to understand is that you can have a foetus with a female brain that grows male body parts and that’s what a transgender person is.”

Mermaids have been training West Yorkshire police for some years. You assume you know better than us and you clearly don't.

donquixotedelamancha · 04/05/2019 15:55

The police seem to have a clear policy in most situations that peaceful protest of limited duration is tolerated and de-escalated.

A few climate protesters in London and Leeds (and it was a few actually engaged in civil disobedience) were allowed to stop thousands from going to work.

There does seem to be a discrepancy with how lesbian protesters are being treated.

Bluestitch · 04/05/2019 15:59

The police refused to do anything about masked protestors blocking stairs and attempting to intimidate women and prevent them attending a meeting too.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 04/05/2019 16:04

The recent Stonewall corporate training (£400 per delegate) had a number of police officers and police forces boasting of attending (in the last 2 weeks)

Gronky · 04/05/2019 16:06

Regarding misleading claims that they were arrested 'for being lesbians', I think a claim of that nature is ultimately rather insulting and belittling of anyone brave enough to stand up for what they believe in with civil disobedience. It also turns potential supporters away when they learn the truth, even if they might have agreed with the basis and nature of the protest had they been directly informed of events as they happened.

Regarding 'free speech' being a defence of their actions, quite apart from the United Kingdom not having any legal protection for free speech, even in the United States, where free speech is protected to a higher level than almost any other country, the right to heckler's veto has repeatedly been found to not enjoy the same protections, because it is an act which seeks to deny others of their freedom of expression, rather than an expression in and of itself.

HandsOffMyRights · 04/05/2019 16:24

Simon Fanshawe has tweeted

'What has become of us. When lesbians are dragged by the police from Pride?? @stonewalluk where are you on this?? t.co/lxku7FGNWI twitter.com/SimonFanshawe/status/1124652825928196096?s=17

Swansea Pride
HandsOffMyRights · 04/05/2019 16:30

I simply refuse to believe that these women were removed from the protests because they were lesbian

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3539529-Lesbians-removed-from-Accenture-inclusive-trans-event-by-7-police-officers

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3386612-Police-called-to-Green-Party-Conference

HandsOffMyRights · 04/05/2019 16:32

Oh and regarding police training

Swansea Pride
HandsOffMyRights · 04/05/2019 16:34

The police have been in bed with Mermaids, Stonewall et al for a long time.

Swansea Pride
OVAgroundWOMBlingfree · 04/05/2019 16:53

I simply refuse to believe that these women were removed from the protests because they were lesbian

I didn’t say that.

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theOtherPamAyres · 04/05/2019 17:18

This is a routine occurrence for city centre police officers, and it's plain wrong to suggest that they were motivated by lesphobia.

I don't know how many times I've frogmarched drunks, preachers, football supporters. stag dos and protest groups out of the way of a moving parade.

Me: "The parade is having to slow down, keep moving or you'll have to move to the side. You're causing an obstruction."
Them (not listening and shouting slogans)
Me: "Walk away with me now, and I won't have to arrest you".

End of story, unless they sit down - in which case, they'll be pulled up and pulled out of the way, by force. I don't care who they are or what their cause is. My job is to ensure that the parade goes through the city, without being held up, and if necessary to use my powers to eliminate obstructions.

It's routine, it's straightforward, it's clear-cut, no exceptions.

We know that the police have been well and truly stitched up by regulatory capture at the highest levels. We know that they have lost public confidence by policing so-called transphobia (wrong-think). They have 'previous' for ejecting women from meetings (I doubt whether they knew nor cared about their sexual orientation).

But don't carried away because its suits the feminist agenda. This was a protest that was designed to provoke a response and the police responded lawfully. Don't criticise us for doing our job - especially since the public value and support the policing of parades.

donquixotedelamancha · 04/05/2019 17:47

Regarding misleading claims that they were arrested 'for being lesbians'

it's plain wrong to suggest that they were motivated by lesphobia.

Who is claiming that? I can't see it on this thread- have I missed something?

If it's a reference to my PP, I think you've misunderstood. I was thinking of protests by gender critical lesbians (such as this one or the 'open to all' LGBT event that Julia Long was thrown out of) where the police seem to leap to using forced removal rather quickly compared to other protests.

I'm not suggesting that is because the protesters are lesbian per se (some may not be). I'm suggesting that protesting against self ID and lesbian erasure might be attracting a different response from the police to other protests.

This was a protest that was designed to provoke a response and the police responded lawfully. Don't criticise us for doing our job

I think we can all agree that the police do a fabulous job which has been made particularly difficult in recent years. Nobody should be slighting these particular officers for doing their job and I agree that it's likely the protesters wanted an attention grabbing response.

theOtherPamAyres do think that there is no chance this might have been handled differently if the protest was about a different issue? I can't see anything to suggest they were stopping the parade (though as you say we weren't there).

Michelleoftheresistance · 04/05/2019 18:48

A few questions pop to mind.

  1. Would lesbians with posters saying that lesbians were adult human females/lesbians don't have penises (both factual statements) been permitted to march at any speed without molestation forcing their exclusion? (Based on multiple incidents, well they never have yet.)

  2. Would TWs have been physically removed by police for exactly the same behaviour? (Based on multiple incidents all of which far exceed placards, or refusing to move on in terms, well they never have been yet.)

  3. What's the resulting natural impact on the trust of lesbians and gender critical women in the police and the law to be enforced fairly, impartially and apolitically, as a result of these multiple witnessed incidents?

  4. Why on earth do gender critical women have a responsibility to be generous to the police, trust and believe in their good intentions and to check their facts while expecting there is much they don't know? (Reminds of me of something about pretty little heads?)

  5. Is anyone suggesting yet that anyone but gender critical women check themselves and their behaviour to ensure it's fully compliant with nice? Or that anyone but gender critical women have behavioural responsibilities here?

There's a word that summarises all this. It's on the tip of my tongue.

Trousering · 04/05/2019 19:16

mobile.twitter.com/swpolice/status/1124711761016426496

Update from the Police. It seems they were in the way. Which is the only way they could be there of course, they aren't allowed to be there unless they worship penis.

Billy21 · 04/05/2019 19:28

Unfortunately one has to be the "right" kind of lesbian to be accepted on a Pride march. I have seen far too much negativity towards same-sex lesbians (ie the real thing) on twitter to naively assume the police's actions were not in some part carried out at the request of the march organisers.

Translesbians are all the rage with the woke set - men and women alike - while lesbians themselves are continually attacked for not accepting the trope that intact transwomen can be - or are - lesbians.

I look forward to the day when, if this level of hostility has to continue, it is turned on the G sector of LGBT rather than the L - in other words, insisting gay men accept transmen as sexual partners.

Michelleoftheresistance · 04/05/2019 19:44

I have seen far too much negativity towards same-sex lesbians (ie the real thing) on twitter to naively assume the police's actions were not in some part carried out at the request of the march organisers.

I believe the proper request is a wail about feeling 'unsafe'.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 04/05/2019 19:44

God, I just read an article from the Independent about celebrating lesbian diversity instead of giving in to transphobic. For fucks sake. I am so sorry this is happening to my lesbian sisters, this past year I’ve come to learn just how much shit you all get. I’m outraged.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/voices/lesbian-visibility-day-trans-rights-lgbt-terf-a8887656.html%3famp

WelshMoth · 04/05/2019 20:10

BasilFaulty a LOT has changed since the years of protesting against Page 3.

Forces all around the UK have been trained up and lobbied by trans groups with vested interests. Have you actually read what the police are doing to women who tweat about mere biology?

Trousering · 04/05/2019 20:13

Jessica you seem permanently outraged tbh. Whilst I see that you have good reason as do we all, all that cortisol can't be good for you. Said with mumsnet good cheer.

I'm off to watch some soothing history documentaries, if I can find any not about mass murder that is.

NotTerfNorCis · 04/05/2019 20:13

insisting gay men accept transmen as sexual partners

Won't happen. Females as a class have never forced themselves sexually on males as a class. We're just never going to see the wholesale storming of gay dating sites or clubs by transmen. Gay men are never going to be in a situation where they go to a dating site and find half the matches are transmen. And certainly no gay man is going to find himself in a situation where he finds himself being pressured into sex against his inclination with someone he knows is a transman.

JessicaWakefieldSV · 04/05/2019 20:15

Well I have hormone disorders so my cortisol is always too high! Also, don’t read so much into the ‘outrage’, I’m perfectly calm sitting with my cat!Hmm

JessicaWakefieldSV · 04/05/2019 20:56

Trousering if it wasn’t clear, I found your comment rude & patronising. You shouldn’t tell women to calm down on a feminist board.

crsacre · 04/05/2019 20:57

North Wales police tweeted an American article which contains gems such as "the penis is not an essential element of manhood—it can beautifully and comfortably coexist with womanhood in one body.”
(Jan 2018)
twitter.com/NWPEnfys/status/951951640680124416

Swansea Pride
SirVixofVixHall · 04/05/2019 22:20

Why on earth are the police tweeting stuff like that ? They are employed by all of us.

littlbrowndog · 04/05/2019 23:01

Oh ffs. When did the police start tweeting such shite

Don’t seem lik3 a parody account. But should be