Is a Transman a mother or father?

[Mamello]

What do people make of this in today's Times? To me this person did not 'Father' their child - they gave birth to their baby from their ova and so are the mother.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/mother-of-all-legal-rows-for-trans-man-and-his-baby-5rzpw9mr7

Sorry - don't have a share token.

Actually you'd need five entries for parents on a reformed birth cert;

Legal Mother/Parent one,
Legal Father/Parent two,
Gestational mother,
Genetic mother,
Genetic father.

My children are donor conceived and I'd also be supportive of having a space for genetic parents. People lying about donor gametes to their children really make me cross

Datun

Yes .. the law is very explicit here, it seems to me.

It means that if a parent "transitions" after having parented a child, the name and sex of that parent cannot be altered on that child's birth certificate.

Since there is no distinction made about when any child is born to a "transitioning / transitioned" parent, it also means that if a parent has a child after "transitioning" the name and sex of that parent must be recorded as the original name and sex of that parent [ie: original legal status of that parent].

Parenthood
The fact that a person’s gender has become the acquired gender under this Act does not affect the status of the person as the father or mother of a child.

It looks totally clear to me too. I can't see why it would need clarification in court.

It should always be remembered that a GRC "grants" a Legal Fictional status to someone, not a legal factual status.

It should also be remembered that, in the absence of a GRC the status of any "transitioner" is that of their original legal factual status in name and sex.

Anyone who says they are legally "transitioned", ie: has a GRC, must prove this via display of their Birth Certificate, since the sole purpose of a GRC is to enable a change to the name and sex references on the original legally factual birth certificate.

The GRA was primarily designed to facilitate same-sex marriage, which did not become law separately until 2013.

Ms Barnsley agreed that the system needed updating. She said: “There’s already confusion in the law. We need a whole rethink about what is a birth certificate — what is it for and what is it doing?”

Sure thing, let's have a cuppa and I'll have a good long listen to your explanations, why indeed do we use birth certificates?
Why are UNICEF, WHO & the UN so focused on improving birth registration rates (especially in vulnerable populations)? What alternative system do you propose exactly?
How does this better fit the purpose?
Who does your system most benefit?
Are there any potential negatives, who would be most disadvantaged?

I love how they throw out these sorts of smart sounding questions, I would much rather read an intelligent argument for their actual proposal, rather than the never ending narcissistic, emotional hand wringing.

TT, you're an adult female that gave birth. You're not special, millions of us - with real lives and non-caricature personalities - have done the same. If you have a legal or philosophical argument, then make it and let it stand on its own merits. If you just want to manipulate people into giving you exactly what you want agreeing by reading your brave personal story, then kindly fuck off and look after your precious baby

When you give birth to your own biological child, you are that child's mother. The birth certificate is the child's record of their birth, it is not the parent's record of their fantasy.

Why can't people leave trans people alone? I'm a straight female. But I shop at a local supermarket where I was often served by a lesbian woman who looked very much like a man. Went in one day and she (now he) *had a deeper voice and a man's name on his name badge. We've had some lovely yarns and he once found my daughters lost shoe to which I was entirely grateful for. I look at him (or her if you'd prefer) and feel sorry for this innocent person (very nice person) who is lambasted by people like this. Just leave people be. They're stuck in thr wrong body and that must be horrible. Pick on paedophile or rapists

I am concerned for a child that will be denied information that is of utmost import emotionally, socially and - potentially - medically. I couldn't give two hoots how someone chooses to present themselves, what gender or title or hairstyle they want to live under. Nobody should lie to a child just to validate their identity.

This has absolutely nothing to do with your supermarket checkout person, who I'm sure is absolutely lovely.

The shop assistant is not being lambasted, though I am not sure of the relevance on this thread.

The correct recording is important, especially in sex based genetic conditions, this cannot be about TT it has to be about the child and the impact on them when not knowing their correct genetic line. I have a genetic condition, it is important that we are able to see exactly how it has come down through the family.

@limpbizkit The problem is that they are making decisions and demanding changes in the law that impact other people e.g. their children, other women, other men etc. It at least warrants discussion.

Lol limpbizkit
None of us forced this person to make their story public (ie, open for discussion) via either the legal proceedings or the media articles.

1/10 for the attempt at guilt tripping 'you're big meanies'
Low effort limp

Feel free to actually engage with the discussion though. What, do you think, is the purpose of a birth certificate?

I'm not guilt tripping. I Just feel trans people are given some really negative press on here. In my experience the trans men/women have been really nice normal down to earth people. I feel sorry their decisions have made for such animosity. Surely there are bigger targets for hate

Re'*purpose of birth cert. How does it affect you!? Does it affect you personally?

Discussing an ideology is not hate. Saying it is, is exactly guilt tripping.

Any thoughts on the topic, or are you just interested in derailing?
Is a transman, who uses their female biology to birth a child, a mother or a father?
What Is the purpose of a birth certificate?
Can people change sex?

Serious question : how or why does it affect you?

Lol, ask UNICEF, WHO and the UN why they care about birth certificates.

limpbizkit

Serious question : how or why does it affect you?

Derailing it is I guess. Boring.

Can't answer =also boring

Have you actually spent any time on MN, limp? You do understand that lots of things are discussed and debated that don’t directly affect those discussing it?

But this has a massive impact on the child in question, and funnily enough those on a parenting forum might have quite a lot to say about that.

You don’t, other than ‘you’re all mean’ so why don’t you pop off?

Shop,assistants. Wtaf this got to do with anything

Did you not read thread.

When is the nice to be the measure of a debate

limp

FGM doesn't affect me either. Neither does the gender pay gap or domestic violence, or honour killings, or period poverty or...

... well you get the drift.

Limpbizkit
Im a straight female. But I shop at a local supermarket where I was often served by a lesbian
How do you know that the person who served you was a lesbian?
Did you ask her about her sex life while she served you? I'm assuming that you didn't because that would be rude.
Did you assume that she was a lesbian because she looked masculine?
Can't you see how bigoted and stupid your post is?
This thread is about a xx person obtaining a GRC that says they are male, then less than 2weeks later being impregnated with sperm, then after gestating a child and giving birth they want to be legally known as that baby's father. Can't you see how fucked up that this is.

A birth certificate should record the verifiable biological facts, for the child's sake.

Anything else would be in denial of actual physical, biological facts for the child - and for the rest of society.