Ama - transwoman

[Indigo9]

I've heard about Mumsnet for years in regards to views on transgender women. But until today I had never visited the site. I've spent hours reading posts related to transwomen and the gender ID bill. I do think there is a little bit of a disconnect with regards to who and what we are. So I've decided to setup this profile with a mind to answering questions you may have about being transgender. I'm not in to hate or insults, so you won't see me participate in any mud slinging, name calling or anything else. I will, however, answer any legitimate questions from my own perspective. I do not speak for the whole trans community and would not try to, but will happily share what I know.

Are you a fully transitioned transwoman?

Do you want to reproduce and given your biological sex is at odds with your defined sex, if you do how would you expect to achieve that?

I think @TemporaryPermanent hit the right note for me with her fantastic insight into how you were raised affected how you see yourself.

What negative experiences of being a woman have you experienced?

I am a man.

I read Indigo9 saying, 'I think like a woman.'

I read lots of women saying, in lots of different ways, 'No, you do not think like a woman.' ('There is no such thing as thinking like a woman,' most say.)

Who am I to believe, Indigo9?

Could it be, Indigo9, that you only think you think like a woman? ... That you are mistaken when you think you think like a woman? That seems most likely. No?

A wise man, David Hume reminded us, apportions his beliefs to the evidence. The evidence is against you, I am afraid, Indigo9. If you wish to be reasonable (let alone wise!), you should reconsider your belief that you think like a woman, however strongly you hold that belief. (Sadly, perhaps, the strength with which a belief is held is no evidence for its truth.)

I'll answer these two questions together. I do not know what it is like to think like a man. I didn't learn to think like a woman. I just always have.

You see, I think the only circumstances that any different 'thinking' may arise is down to the sexed experiences of pregnancy and childbirth - when instincts kick in ( mostly), and perceptions and priorities change.

The assumption that women here just need educating is particularly fascinating to me. Does it ever occur that we’re perfectly well informed, but just disagree?

No it never appears to. We are either uninformed or MEAN.

I don't see what you are saying as offensive. After all as much as I hate the fact I was born with a male body. But have always known from my first memories that something was not right. There was a massive disconnect between my body and my mind. That incongruence grew and became unbearable as I hit puberty. No I don't have a uterus or cervix. But aside from that I am a woman.

How do you identify now, in terms of sexuality? Do you consider yourself straight; or a lesbian? Do you live a conventional lifestyle, or are you very much involved in the TRA 'scene'?

We are either uninformed or MEAN.

And yet it’s always us they try to re-educate instead of KiwiFarms.

This ties in with my post upthread though. Indigo defines women as ‘kind’, and other transwomen have expressed shock that MN isn’t all about buggies & lipstick.

Does that mean that none of us are actually women by their definition, either???

But as to how a man thinks is a mystery to me too!

But men are just people....all different to each other.

I think @TemporaryPermanent hit the right note for me with her fantastic insight into how you were raised affected how you see yourself.

Yes, that is interesting - food for thought.

TemporaryPermanent Thu 18-Apr-19 02:55:50
Indigo, thank you for engaging. I am interested to see that you had a sexist and abusive father who beat you for not fitting expectations of nasculinity, and that your expectation if being in a male environment is that you will be beaten for not meeting expectations if masculinity.

Doesn't it seem possible to you that you were perfect as a boy exactly as you were, but that you had extremely damaged and abusive parents/sexist society, rather than that you were actually female? And that being trans has allowed you to become a cultural refugee from that toxic sexist environment and to escape it in a creative way?

Unfortunately, not answered.

While transitioning either bathroom is a scary place. So yes I think trans-women in transition should use the women's loo.

I really do think you should campaign for third spaces. It is not fair to expect women to shoulder the discomfort ( & for many, fear), because some men react violently to you as a trans woman in men's toilets.

Most places these days have separate disabled toilets. Do you attempt to use these where possible?

If such an innate part of womanhood is as you say being nice and kind, then why would you insist on encroaching on female only spaces, knowing that women clearly don't want that? And how can women have womens only rights when that word is being re-defined to include male bodied people?

Why would a third mixed sex space not be acceptable to you? Or would it?

1. OP turned up to offer their special patronage to us mere women after seeing some random screenshot on FB - presumably one of the pages set up to target MN?
2. OP is only here to answer questions that suit them.
3. Has anyone checked twitter for the inevitable?
4. Interesting how some posters who have been conspicuous by the absence recently have magically turned up again on this thread.
5. It's exactly as expected: "I am a special type of ladywoman therefore I use all ladywomen things and places and feel like a ladywoman. Despite no explanation of what ladywoman is."

Hi OP,

I'll answer these two questions together. I do not know what it is like to think like a man. I didn't learn to think like a woman. I just always have

I consider myself to be a woman. I live as a woman and have done for a long time. Most of my adult experience has been as a woman inclusive of the good the bad and the ugly.

I do mean I think like a woman. My whole life is through the lens of being a woman. In many ways it is all I have ever known.

I think that's fairly unequivocal, don't you? Very definite, very assertive, not up for debate. Very assured.

So my question is very simple, give me the top five things that mean you are a woman. I don't mind what they are. I don't mind what sphere of your life they come from, just the top five things.

The things that coursed through your mind like a runaway train every minute of every day that made you understand you were a woman and had to tell everyone. Just five.

Hell let's make it a little easier, just the top three.

And I think you probably know by now that 'changing into comfy pants' isn't it.

A wise man, David Hume reminded us, apportions his beliefs to the evidence. The evidence is against you, I am afraid, Indigo9. If you wish to be reasonable (let alone wise!), you should reconsider your belief that you think like a woman, however strongly you hold that belief. (Sadly, perhaps, the strength with which a belief is held is no evidence for its truth.)

This. OP is male so can only know that OP doesn't feel the way OP thinks a man should feel. OP is not female so cannot know how being a woman would feel.

Hello OP. I was in Primark with my 12 yo daughter. There was a strapping 6’6” transwoman browsing the racks, very striking she was in high heels, a beautiful skirt suit, bright red curly red wig and massive prop forward hands.
If my daughter went to the loos and found her in there, would it be unreasonable to leave immediately because she’d be intimidated by an obvious male in a women’s space? What about religiously devout women? How are they meant to react?

How would you define how you think in relation to your gender? It's a big topic and is hard to eloquently wrap up in to a short answer.

Just give it a go. One example at a time.

You can't surely expect people to just accept some 'magical essence' which is beyond explanation. I really do sense that the 'woman identification' is really an elaborate, imagined construct - through which you view yourself as an object. As if, perhaps, one is always looking at oneself 'performing' femininity.

What the fuck is thinking like a woman? When my boyfriend comes home from work he puts comfy clothes on as well, is he now a woman? You're chatting shit.

These are some of the most 'womanly thoughts' that I have had over the years:

I wonder when I will start my period, loads of other girls have now.
Shall I switch to a mooncup?
Where is my period?
I'm really not sure I want to go through the shite of breastfeeding again.
I really hope that, despite taking the pill for 10 years and hoping I don't get pregnant, now that I have come off the pill, I get pregnant quickly!
Oh god, my appt to fit my coil is tomorrow and I have just started the mother of all post partum periods!
Shit, I didn't take my pill yesterday.
I wonder if my boss will give me part time when I go back to work?
When is my DH going to man up and get the snip, I have done more than my fair share over the last 15 years!
I keep thinking back to that hazy encounter at uni and wondering if I really did consent... I was so drunk, I really don't think I did, I was barely conscious, and he should have known that.

Like I said.. Just a few.

My question is:

What do you have in common with all women everywhere, that you don't have in common with men?

I was born in the 70's. There was no infastructure or help available to me. My parents would say I was just sensitive, or that it was a phase, or try to beat it out of me. Later in life they fully accepted me, but only after I had had surgeries. My brother and sister also accept me. I'm one of the lucky ones.

This sounds very sad. but also sounds as if being gay was simply not an option?

I hope you come back op as i would like to ask what you think of people like jessica janiv and pippa bunce.
One who seems to be a genuine threat to women and girls the other simply seems to be taking the piss.

Firstly you would never know that I am transgender by either seeing me or speaking to me.

So when you use male bathrooms do they assume you are a woman ?

We know. We always know. We might be polite and refer to you as she and call you by a female name. We might not even be that bothered at sharing a public toilet with you, but we know.

I walked into a large room last week. The only occupied seat was a person hunched over a computer, head down, not even looking in my direction. They had a bob-style haircut, a top of that kind of silky satin material and a skirt.

I also immediately picked up their body shape didn't fit the women's clothing. Just in that few seconds glance as I was moving through the room I picked up the sense that was not a woman.

Sure enough they came into the office about 20mins later. Hulking great male, hands and arms like a prop forward, jaw like Dick Tracy. Had someone of that build been up to no good, I would not have stood a chance. They transitioned/had surgery almost 10 years ago, it transpired.

LordProf
”Woman experience?
Pregnancy
Periods
Miscarriage
Abortion
Mammography
Smear test
Rape and/or sexual assault ( I know guys have this too but to a lesser extent)
Becoming invisible at 40
Partner trading you in for a younger model
Paid less
Giving up work to look after kids/relatives”

Just feel this needs repeating.

How much of this list have trans women experienced?
It is not “thinking like a women, being kind and wearing fucking comfortable pants!”

Just going back and reading the thread now... sackrifice, - "Why do you think so many female hormones are readily available to men before they are even adults, when women are still denied these same hormones when they hit the menopause, when these hormones might stop them getting osteoporosis and other crippling problems associated with living longer after the menopause?"

I know exactly what you mean - I'm currently jumping through many hoops in an attempt to obtain HRT from my GP. Have been trying for years. In past appointments the GP has actually tried to offer me lube instead! I have no idea why, as I'm widowed and celibate.

So when you use male bathrooms do they assume you are a woman ?

OP fears for their life if they use a male bathroom, yet assures us they completely pass?

If I went into the mens, I might get leered at or looked at oddly depending if I was in Wetherspoons or Waitrose. But I actually wouldn't fear being physically punched and beaten up, because men generally don't set about unknown women for no reason whatsoever.

So clearly OP doesn't actually pass, because these men are having their fragile masculinity triggered in response to another man not "manning properly".

With that in mind. Why do you think you should invade the women's facilities? We know.