Ama - transwoman

[Indigo9]

I've heard about Mumsnet for years in regards to views on transgender women. But until today I had never visited the site. I've spent hours reading posts related to transwomen and the gender ID bill. I do think there is a little bit of a disconnect with regards to who and what we are. So I've decided to setup this profile with a mind to answering questions you may have about being transgender. I'm not in to hate or insults, so you won't see me participate in any mud slinging, name calling or anything else. I will, however, answer any legitimate questions from my own perspective. I do not speak for the whole trans community and would not try to, but will happily share what I know.

For a long time it's just been men and women, that has been the view of society, now we have trans so maybe we should have men women and trans and stop this, 'I'm a woman', because you're not, you're trans. Please just accept this, and fight for your trans rights, your trans spaces and where you fit in this world. I think we (males and females) will be far more accepting of you if you did this.

Another thing about being a women if you have a large and natural chest (no experience of implants, sorry) and tge realisation that the last of your comfy bras wires have snapped. No way can i go out in public without one and the remaining ones create a lovely illusion of 4 breasts, more, in this case not being better! 😂

OP needs to read some of MN's MIL threads (women less controlling? Ahem!). OP would go running from the female sex like a rat up a drainpipe.

I've heard about Mumsnet for years in regards to views on transgender women. But until today I had never visited the site. I've spent hours reading posts related to transwomen and the gender ID bill.

This might be identified as a potential issue from the start.

Why would a transwoman be assaulted in the mens toilets? The majority of men are neither transphobic or violent so the assumption that trans women would automatically be in danger in male spaces is bizarre.

And how come nobody accuses people like the OP of being man haters? Women who talk about the fear of male violence are often labelled man haters or accused of being paranoid and tarring all men with the same brush. Nobody ever accuses transwomen who fear male violence of the same thing though. Strange.

Come on.. it’s a wind up surely!? Someone after screenshots.

🌚 (oops is that grey or dark blue?)

Gender dysphoria is a real condition, in which the sufferer finds him/herself feeling completely alien to their own body (correct me if that's an incorrect short summary).

Gender dysphoria is the outcome for heterosexual autogynephiles. It starts with fantasies and cross-dressing in their teens. It progresses, but as a shameful secret that is hidden from family, friends, girlfriends and wives. As the compulsion worsens, gender dysphoria is real.

After that, they re-write their autobiograpghy to sound more like the transexual. They will say that they knew that they were born in the wrong body from childhood. They will say that they have always felt like a woman - not that they were sexually turned on by the idea.

Yes, AGPs have gender dysphoria but the cause is rooted in male sexuality.

Not all gender dysphoria is the same. This article gives some insight into the progress of Autogynephilia to full blown gender dysphoria

sillyolme.wordpress.com/advice-for-wivesgirlfriends-of-autogynephiles/

Current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3556795-Are-there-identifiable-causes-for-being-trans

As an honest autogynephilic male said:

Firstly you would never know that I am transgender by either seeing me or speaking to me how did you remove youre adams apple also did you change youre voice

What I find confusing is, when I was doing gender studies modules at university a few years ago, the most current and liberal way of thinking was that there were no real differences between male and female brains, and that it was largely down to gendered socialisation. Hence why we thought gendered violence could be reduced by raising boys differently.

This was definitely an accepted truth when it came to children, before hormones kicked in - hence the push to ban pink and blue, and let children play however they chose without pushing genered stereotypes on them. Children are just children, their brains before puberty are the same (and a girl playing with a truck doesn’t make her boyish etc).

Now it seems to have gone completely the other way, and we all have to accept that a young child can know that they’re “meant” to be the opposite gender, and they “think” as the opposite gender from a young age. Like we’re all meant to just nod and say “yes, eight year old girls and boys think so differently, it must be so hard for an eight year old boy who knows he’s a girl”. I really don’t mean to diminish people’s lived experiences, but are there any clinical studies or actual evidence that children think so differently based on their gender? The accepted liberal way of thinking about children and gender has whiplashed so quickly in the opposite direction to fit with the current trans narrative.

I know in my heart that I’m not transphobic, but I don’t believe that children making decisions about their sex/gender and beginning medication before the age of 16 is okay. We all agree that children can’t consent to sex, marriage, or changing their bodies with tatooos before the age of 16, so why would they be able to consent to something so much more complex and lifechanging?

Puberty is such a confusing time, particularly for gender-noncomforming children or gay/lesbian children, and it makes sense for 15 or 16 year olds to have a few years to come to terms with their new post-puberty bodies and identities before deciding to change them forever. Would be interested to know what OP thinks of this if they come back.

Great idea Barracker. I wonder why I have this strange feeling, though, that whatever term we came up with to describe all and only those born female, TRAs would appropriate it? Like, I dunno, P Lees’ twitter bio: “adult human female”.

It’s weird, isn’t it? Almost like they are determined to deny us the right to name and define ourselves, to organise ourselves without any male input whatsoever; like it's all about traditional male control of females, just dressed up differently.

So puzzling to think that could be what’s actually going on in this fantastically modern, socially just, progressive movement, isn’t it?

Oops forgot to refresh after being away from screen! That was in reply to Barracker’s post of 10.15.

Reading with interest this morning. Sadly after starting an AMA thread and announcing they are leaving to wind down exactly 90 minutes later, the OP hasn’t returned.

Anyway, in case you come back OP re this statement about you being trans: it is only very recently have we been able to be out, be proud of who and what we are and simply get on with living our best lives

What does ‘out’ mean for you OP? In what way?

Like, I dunno, P Lees’ twitter bio: “adult human female”.

So desperate.

As an aside, tbf to the OP, Indigo has stated that Indigo resides in the USA I believe, so will no doubt be catching up on beauty sleep as we speak, not just ignoring us.

Although I have no doubt that Indigo will continue to ignore any questions that suggest that Indigo is personally complicit in the oppression of women (the becunted kind that we now have no discrete word for thanks to the actions of people like Indigo).

Because of course it’s a woman’s prerogative not to answer awkward questions, yes? That must be how Indigo knows that Indigo is a woman.

Clearly all politicians are women. And all women are politicians. Or something like that.

Indigo9 (the OP) wrote - "I was born in the 70's. There was no infastructure or help available to me."

The NHS has been running gender identity clinics since 1966.

The Beaumont Society has been supporting transgender people since 1966.

I do hope it’s just beauty sleep that’s keeping them away. Because I’m really struggling with knowing how to best deal with the concept of being ‘out’ and proud.

Do we celebrate you being out and proud as a transwoman? Out and proud as a woman? Out as what?

Because some of us on here know all too well the consequences we get for ‘outing’, when we get it oh so very wrong.

It is indeed weird TalkingintheDark.

But don't worry, I'm not proposing that females, women and girls rename ourselves.
I'm proposing the OP does.
I'm offering to help create a new name for the group of people like the OP based upon their common characteristics. Which I don't share.
I'm sure, now that it's been pointed out that women have the right to distinguish ourselves from the OP just as much (more) as the OP wants to distinguish themselves from men, that the OP will see that it isn't women who need to rename ourselves, but the OP themself.

After all, to take the name from billions of oppressed women and claim it as your own, insisting that they find a new name (which you'll certainly steal too) isn't very...nice.

I'm sure that the OP, upon realising that we are a category of people in our own right to which OP doesn't belong, will stop using our words and respect our right to autonomy - which involves accepting that noone should be forced into a common group with other people if they can prove they have nothing in common with them.

HumberElla
The OP is in the US, where it is between about 3.40 and 6.40 am at the moment (I think). We might have to wait a few hours for more replies.

The other thing from OP’s answers that leapt out at me was

Trans people have been around since civilization started and even before

I think this is highly unlikely and would like to see evidence to back it up

I have both comfy knickers and comfy trousers today. Both could be called pants I suppose. Don't Americans call trousers pants and knickers/boxers/whatever underpants?

The word pants can refer to different things but woman only has one true meaning. Although those appropriating the word woman twist and turn it to fit their own narrative.

As an aside, I imagine it's very difficult for an skinny bloke to hide his Adam's apple and I've never seen a woman with one.