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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Clarification on Women only spaces

377 replies

Magenta82 · 12/04/2019 13:18

Hiya, I've always identified as a feminist, I'm fairly new to Mumsnet and before joining had read about trans rights and had got the impression that any challenges were transphobic and bigoted.

I can see now that, as with most things, the issues are far more nuanced than Twitter would lead us to believe. I can see issues with women's rights, self identification, shutting down debate, etc and am starting to understand other points of view.

I guess for me the complications arise when things get personal. I have some trans friends, both MTF and FTM, who have fully transitioned (as adults over 30), had all the surgery, got certificates the whole thing. What would the general consensus be on access to single sex spaces for them?

My friend may not have grown up as a girl/woman, but has made every effort to become one because she has always felt this way, she may not have faced the same challenges as me growing up, but she has faced other challenges and discrimination. I feel like she absolutely belongs in women only spaces and would hate to think that other people see her as a threat.

OP posts:
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barelove · 14/04/2019 16:00

Pissing in a stall next door to a transsexual is a small compromise in a cause as big as humanity Great, then let men do it! All sorted

👏👏👏👏👏

Tinkoschminko · 14/04/2019 16:15

Won? Very disconcerting choice of word. And who have we won our human rights from exactly?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 14/04/2019 16:23

Your friend can’t change their sex they are still a man

Why should I and other girls and women feel uncomfortable. Mostly we can tell something isn’t quite what it seems why should we be put in that position

I don’t want to be horrible and say to a trans women hey sorry but this isn’t your space

I want to be respected that this is my choice and one that does not need to be justified and for them to understand (if they bothered doing some reading they would) why single sex spaces are needed

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 14/04/2019 16:35

A few males are trying to challenge and refine what it is to be a woman and make decisions for us to suit themselves

Since time began we have had that now we have some control over what we need to feel safer

Why are we even expected to rethink this

Oh yes I know why because women/females are meant to be accommodating to put others (males) first their needs are more important

Same old same old male entitlement

Joisanofthedales · 14/04/2019 16:50

curious
SmileFlowers
This

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 14/04/2019 16:52

I urge you all to remember that each victory and each loss is, at this stage, just a minor battle or turning point on the path to a society whose value isn't set on the colour of your skin, your creed, your sex or sexuality. In order for ALL to win we must all compromise!

Of cours,e wom,en must compromise, rather than stand our ground and retain the rights we have. We are not trying t take anyones rights away as claimed, we just want to cling onto ours. Why this is a Very Bad Thing, I don't bloody know. Also, I don't really see it as victories and losses. But cool if you do Smile

FloralBunting · 14/04/2019 17:18

Lo, verily, it being the blessed Palm Sunday, I urge you all, in the name in glory, to descend from your pedestals and grant, yea, in your condescension, so to provide all good things for humanity! It is your calling, as femenists, to ease the passage and life of everyone, for you are, indeed, everyone's mum.

Does that about cover it? I've had a long day.

barelove · 14/04/2019 17:28

.... for you are, indeed, everyone's mum

I SO love you Women Smile

LangCleg · 14/04/2019 17:29

It is your calling, as femenists

I see what you did there! Grin

Shaboopy · 14/04/2019 17:36

barelove

Who is asking you to give up your identity? Are you identifiable only by which door you go through to piss and shit?

I am asking you to forbear argument, and therefore counter attacks, on an issue which in my country is easily fore bourne!

FloralBunting · 14/04/2019 17:39

Live stream of Shaboopy. Sorry, it appears to have frozen - the challenges of communicating from the 1700's!

Clarification on Women only spaces
Shaboopy · 14/04/2019 17:43

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole

why go left or right when straight forward is a shorter way?

LangCleg · 14/04/2019 17:45

Live stream of Shaboopy. Sorry, it appears to have frozen - the challenges of communicating from the 1700's!

Don't draw me back in with your goshdarned sense of humour. woman! This is a grey rock situation of never going away whilst encouraged!

That said: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You slay me!

Shaboopy · 14/04/2019 17:46

barelove

Fine by me, but since this is a discussion on M2F Ts whats your context? focus!

Shaboopy · 14/04/2019 17:47

Equaulity over palm sunday anyday

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 14/04/2019 17:47

so, I'm just catching up here...busy weekend.....so is Shaboopy a chap? and he's come to tell us who gets to user the ladies loos? with a side order of excessive punctuation!

does that cover it?

barelove · 14/04/2019 17:52

Don't draw me back in with your goshdarned sense of humour. woman!

This Grin
I want to stay away from the nonsense but can't resist checking it out for the potential laughs!

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 14/04/2019 17:53

why go left or right when straight forward is a shorter way?

Genuinely no idea what you are trying to say here.

Also, personally I don't give a shit about toilets. Its everything else.

barelove · 14/04/2019 17:53

Bernard

yup!

Shaboopy · 14/04/2019 17:56

Tinkoscminko

we have 'won'! our terms were never defined in terms since suffrage haven't changed, women should be equal! there have been many secondary battles but Feminism EXISTS as a political force! Where 200 years ago it didn't!

Gather your strength, don't be drawn out as a movement, to be made equal in petty disputes such as this! Loose a foot to gain a yard, this is surely a war of attrition!

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 14/04/2019 17:57

thanks barelove, I feel all caught up

when we get a visitor like this, it;s always their excessive cruelty to punctuation that really strikes me.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 14/04/2019 17:59

no, I'm lost again

which 'we' is shaboopy talking about? I thought he was a chap. why is he trying to team up with me?

JackyHolyoake · 14/04/2019 18:00

This is the text from the Equality Act 2010 that protects women's toilets, changing rooms etc from men who intrude upon them, regardless of how they choose to express themselves:

Schedule 3 [Services and public functions: exceptions], section 27 [single sex services] subsection 6:

(6) The condition is that—

(a) the service is provided for, or is likely to be used by, two or more persons at the same time, and

(b) the circumstances are such that a person of one sex might reasonably object to the presence of a person of the opposite sex.

FloralBunting · 14/04/2019 18:01

Sorry Lang and everyone else grey rocking. I shall desist in my encouragement of your perturbations!

Shaboopy · 14/04/2019 18:04

JackyHolyoake

the definition, then, to be drawn out of what constitutes 'expression' and then applied to both m2f and f2m people. It doesn't cover much in tort its too recent, how can it be leant on for moral justification?