How would you feel about having a male midwide

[Lardlizard]

Just interested in the points of view

It is about the consequence of maintaining nursing as a female occupation

...and again, no, its not about that at all is it.

That's just what you are making it about, for you.

Jessica Eaton gets this when she tweets about women's services- 'What about the men?' When she points out she has also founded programs for men in crisis and they are welcome to support her work, tumbleweed.

I have a feeling that if men in general preferred care by male nurses rather than female all these years, there would be lots more male nurses. I'm happy to be corrected by men saying otherwise though.

I wouldn't mind a male midwife but totally understand why others might mind very much. I wouldn't want a male midwife who wanted me to agree to pretend they were a woman though.

It's the same with international women's day. All these men going what about international men's day then, eh?

And when you point out it's the 19th of November and what are they going to do on it?

Crickets.

Lots of lovely money to Refuge, though!

I've had 6 kids and I would never given the choice have had a male midwife. But that should be a choice given and if you turn that down it should be excepted. I was consigned a male consultant but never needed him in the end. But the safety of mother and child should also come into it and man or women that then goes out of the window if a baby needs a swift welcome into the world.

man or women that then goes out of the window if a baby needs a swift welcome into the world

No. Labour lasts longer with men in the room.

I'd like a female midwife.

I had a shit trainee male doctor in my first birth sitting in for a bit and I just wanted him to go away.

But of course I was put on the spot and didn't feel I could say no when they asked if he could sit in.

Smother I'm not sure if it's me you're referring to as mentioning feminists. I was sort of assuming most posters (definitely not all) were feminists and it is in feminism chat. Anyway, I agree with you and think LCM is wrong.

I had one. I hated it. But there wasnt anyone else. He sat at the end of my bed playing on his mobile phone the whole time, and with the angle of his phone I was paranoid he was taking photos as I was lying there, legs akimbo.

See Jelly exactly, and god how awful.

No-one should have their phone near you how gross. Please report his behaviour as suspicious. Other women need to not have him. Please speak out to protect them

This is going on everywhere,it needs stopping.

At least up-skirting is now illegal.

I vaguely recall I had a male midwife with ds1 as one of the team. Just checked with Dh who said yes. Clearly made no difference to me as I had to double check. He was a cog in a great team.

I think many ignore the fundamentally detrimental effect that strange males will have on a labour.

It's instinctive, and its ignored,but good MWs will know absolutely know how to help women labour well and not hinder its progression as a man there's nothing you can do to help except stay out of the room

I have seen commentary to the effect that it is actually the male partner of the labouring woman and not the presence of male HCPs that can inhibit labour, the reason being that stress hormones of the male partners if they have never witnessed something like labour and childbirth before can affect the woman. Presumably the male HCPs otoh, who assist at birth day in and day out, are not as anxious?

I wonder about the danger inherent in male partner presence of centering male partners during labour, especially given that pregnancy is often the time in a relationship when some men begin abusing their partners.

Is it really possible for a man and a woman to leave behind them all the issues that there could be in a relationship, all the stressors, all the irritants, all the entitlement and assumptions of at best mutual attention and at worst the assumption that the man is the centre of the universe, and proceed to an environment where the woman needs all the focus and needs intuitive support. There are relationships where the woman is expected to provide that to the man 24/7. I know there are anecdotal accounts of men who were completely unable to get over the experience of a team of people paying them no attention whatsoever for the hours that the process of birth takes, or the experience of seeing their partner and the baby giving each other their completely undivided attention as they bonded.

At a pre natal class before DD1 was born there were two couples where the fathers were not going to be present in the labour or delivery room, by mutual agreement with their partners. They were going to be waiting in the hospital and the mothers were going to have a female relative with them.

It felt very counter cultural at the time, but I can see how some men would be more trouble than they were worth in a delivery room, and I can also appreciate the preference for a female supporter (which was the case for these men - they were not concerned about fainting and their partners were not concerned they would make nuisances of themselves but they had together concluded that this was a female experience) as long as that person was able to refrain from overwhelming the mother verbally, and was able to step back and allow the mother and the birthing process and then the mother and baby to be the centre of the universe.

I haven’t rtft (sorry) but I remember someone asking this about a year ago because their DH was considering retraining. I personally wouldn’t want it. I don’t think I should even have to give a reason. Labour is one of the most vulnerable times of a woman’s life and she should be able to choose who is present.

I was a midwife for twenty years, including community for ten. I've never been a fan of male midwives, I wouldn't have one myself if I had a choice and I question the motives and understanding of men choosing to insinuate themselves into women's spaces like this. That said all the ones I have worked with have been obviously gay which I think some women would perhaps find reassuring or less threatening with regards to intimate procedures. One took great exception to the "bare below the elbow" rule as he liked the one off uniform the hospital had agreed with him of smart striped shirts à la Dr Christian, arguing that he didn't need to wash his hands as he never touched the patients. Which is true. I never saw him go near a baby. He liked to sit in the office inviting women in for a discharge interview where he sat behind the desk and ticked off the boxes and lectured them on contraception.
Of course lots of obstetricians are male and often there isn’t a choice, the thing is the obstetrician tends just to sweep in to save the day at the end of a tricky labour or to do the LSCS.
Which is entirely different to the job of the midwife, which can be very intimate during labour, not just internal examinations but also hugs, massages, cold compresses on the perineum, mopping up vomit and poo. And call me or my DH old fashioned but I don’t think DH is the only man who would feel uncomfortable watching another man giving his wife a back massage or being shown how to give his wife a back massage by that man.

Then there is post natal care, things like helping with hot and cold compresses for engorged breasts, helping to express milk, checking the perineal healing, applying ice packs to haemorrhoids. I have yet to be convinced that it is appropriate for men to be giving that care - and if they are do they have chaperones? I don’t know what current policy is regarding this but it must impact the service either because they cannot do everything or because a second member of staff has to be available.

It’s a No from me.

Also Jelly that is awful. That midwife needed reporting.

Men have no place at all around birthing women as their presence slows down labour.

Is this true?
Regarding the stress hormone theory, I would certainly have been way more stressed if DH wasn't there, and if my mother was there, I would have imploded with stress.

It's instinctive, and its ignored,but good MWs will know absolutely know how to help women labour well and not hinder its progression as a man there's nothing you can do to help except stay out of the room

Why would it be instinctive? I'm a woman and I've given birth by ec. I wouldn't have a clue about what to do to help a woman in labour

It's training and experience of doing the job which will make a good midwife.

Also I'm not anti Male HCPs, there are lots more male nurses and male HCA's these days. My aged mother was shocked to find herself being eased onto a bedpan by a young Spanish man after having a fall and fractured pelvis. He was soon her absolute favourite, so polite, respectful, caring and gentle. A real gem. But that is very different to the intensity of midwifery care.

It felt very counter cultural at the time, but I can see how some men would be more trouble than they were worth in a delivery room

Private patients were the worst because the (male) obstetricians pal up with the fathers who they assume are paying the bill whether or not they are and crack jokes. I remember one woman whose husband was a bigwig in the army, dressed in a sharp navy blazer with lots of gold buttons, tie, cuff links etc, and sat at the far end of a large delivery room reading The Times. Every time she had a pain and wimpered she apologised for making a fuss.... I longed to tell him to bugger off and her to just have a bloody good scream but there you go, that's not what they were paying for.

That was exactly my experience with the young trainee male doctor. I'd never had a child before so it was a traumatic experience to be in labour for the first time and all he was interested in doing was talking to my husband about music festivals as he'd seen from our medical notes that he was a sound engineer. I had to go hello excuse me I am in labour here...

I found the whole experience really rude and demeaning and I just wanted him to fuck off out of there to be honest

As long as he acted professionally and had the right credentials I don't care who is helping me out.

You aren't left alone for long with one person and many doctors are make so don't feel it's much different.

I do ask for female doctors if they are GPS as they aren't specific to their speciality. Plus I often find female GPS more sympathetic.

I have also been sexually assaulted. But I tell myself it's the individual, not that person and although more men are predators it does not mean all are.

Juat to more with both my DDs I had complications so the anathesist who was male both times helped save my life. I have no doubt a well trained male midwife would've helped just like the amazing midwives who helped me.

I would hope whichever HCP was available at the time would do what they needed to do to save a life in an emergency. I don't think that's really the point.