How would you feel about having a male midwide

[Lardlizard]

Just interested in the points of view

With both my eldest and youngest my births ended up being difficult situations and they were delivered by a male consultant so no I wouldn't have cared if I had a male midwife,we live in the 21st century now,surely in a world where women are taught they can do and be anything the same should be applied to men too

I wouldn't be comfortable and I work in the health profession myself

Older doesn’t always mean experienced. There’s no age limit on when you can start your training. A midwife in their 40s/50s could have only just qualified whereas a 30 something year old has 10+ Years more experience.

*Sadly it isn't just male gynaecologists with that attitude.

As a student nurse I worked in gynae theatres. One very old school female gynae surgeon refused to do terminations via suction because they were less painful for the woman post op. She felt that women should suffer pain post op as a deterrent*

That’s called internalised misogyny, perhaps if we can move to gynaecology being more female led, we’ll see less misogyny, internalised or otherwise!

we live in the 21st century

Not sure why that means we have to ignore all potentially embarrassing/uncomfortable feelings around intimate situations with members of the opposite sex, let alone actual safeguarding.

I told myself just that when I was surprised to find a male masseur arrive for my appointment. I dare say I should have expected the possibility as I had booked in on a whim for a "sports" massage while my boyfriend of the time used the tennis court at a hotel In the sports area. Lots of sports physios are men. I should have gone to the beauty parlour instead. I told myself not to be silly. Anyway suffice to say my groin and inner thighs were thoroughly groped massaged until I told him to do my back as I had shoulder pain and he took the hint. I probably should have complained but didn't want to make a fuss. I wouldn't say never - it depends on the person/situation - I have had a male osteopath since then for instance. But in general, no, I would not have a man in that sort of situation in the future.

Of course there are lots of wonderful male Drs, nurses, HCA's, and others working in health services. There are undoubtedly some crap female ones, I know some female obstetricians who wouldn't dream of giving birth any way but an elective LSCS and who are distinctly lacking in the empathy area.
Most men working in the health service aren't doing so for the opportunities for abuse that it presents.

But there have been some appalling cases, the Addenbrooke’s paediatric cancer specialist for example.
I think when these cases present and hospitals review "lessons learned" and safeguarding and so on the main lesson learned it to be alert and don't assume anyone is above suspicion. Or something along those lines. So if some women prefer to protect themselves by choosing female staff that should be a perfectly acceptable preference.

That said, some posters talk of always choosing women, and I'm not sure it would be possible to never have a male Dr or nurse even outside of emergency situations. At night in most hospitals the number of junior doctors on duty is very small with one Dr covering a lot of areas. There simply wouldn't be the option of asking for someone else. Ditto for the number of nursing staff on duty. Or you may need to seek out the best specialist in a niche area and that specialist is male. But that is all very different to choosing/accepting a male midwife, within the UK expectation of community visits and postnatal care as well as the actual birth.

Fundamental human biology has not, despite what some people pretend, been changed because we live in the 21st century.

I though giving birth was a fascinating animal experience and I wanted to use scientific knowledge to get the best possible labour and birthing experience I could. That meant having a midwife led birth and no pain relief. I certainly didn’t want any men present.

MariaNovella

Which is great if you are fortunate to have a straightforward pregnancy and labour.

Had I followed a fundamental animal experience both me and my baby would have died. I never even got to the point of going into labour. My pregnancy was terminated at 35 weeks because I was dying - my kidneys had stopped working and my liver was severely affected. Without modern medicine stepping in and surgically removing my baby we both would have died that day.

Some of us have never had the option of a non medicalised, letting our body do what is designed to do experience.

Sure, and that’s a good use of modern interventionist medicine - to save lives.

Why not ? We have male GPs and Consultants who can be part of our care when pregnant.

I had a male health visitor - absolute gem. Likewise the female health visitor with my other DC .

It adds to the feelings of failure though reading posts like yours - that people who have experienced what I did weren't as in touch with our bodies or didn't do it right or had we been more in tune then it would all have worked out fine.

LittleChristmas it must have been a terrifying experience for you and thank goodness for modern medicine.
I doubt anyone is arguing that a situation like yours is a time to get picky about the sex of the experts coming to the rescue.
You certainly shouldn't be feeling like a failure. Battle scarred survivor might be a better description.
Did you ever have the opportunity for a debriefing session? I believe a lot of hospitals offer this these days and some people find it very helpful.

Initially I think I would have been slightly uncomfortable, however my pregnancy wasn't straight forward, and I ended up with so many male registrar's doing checks etc, that I lost any issue...male or female they would have been trained to the same level.

Actually, the new HV is male and the few times I have seen him he has been wonderful, and he was a MW previously, and if I had had him I think I would have been lucky.

Also, I suspect that DHs difficulty soon after the birth would have been spotted/acted on earlier with a male mw. The female community MWs were lovely, but all were very fast to point a finger at him for being unsupportive etc but actually all they did was shut him down further. They wouldn't discharge me to HV for a few weeks and actually their concern for my wellbeing made both me and DH worse.

FannyCann

No, no debrief. This was 25 years ago and my 2nd baby was born 20 years ago and was very similar other than I got to term before needing to be delivered due to pre eclampsia again. Neither hospital even exists anymore so no chance of a debrief I wouldn't have thought.

I think other women are very good at making some mums feel like failures - birth is easy so long as you follow nature's instincts (banish men, involve only women, create a safe atmosphere so your body can do what it was meant to), breast feeding is natural and so much easier (for some women yes. I breast fed my dd until she was 3. It was hard. It took over my life. Bottle feeding would have been so much easier but it's like we are afraid to tell the truth.
Some bodies don't do what they were meant to. No amount of no men, candles or birthing pools would have helped me. I think it's important to remember that some women don't get the "experience". They are just happy to come through it with both themselves and their baby alive.

That’s called internalised misogyny, perhaps if we can move to gynaecology being more female led, we’ll see less misogyny, internalised or otherwise

There always has to be an excuse for poor behaviour by a woman doesn't there?

Fanny you seem to be going to considerable effort to try to show my experience was not the norm. Why is it so difficult to believe I saw a hospital midwife
3 maybe 4 times at pre- natal appointments (It wasn't even the same midwife each time) and post discharge, I saw none.

On women HCPs being more understanding because they are supposed to have shared experiences, the male gynaecologist whom I saw privately after the unhelpful female doctor at the Well Woman clinic in relation to painful, very heavy and almost constant periods won hands down. And he solved the problem by recommending and carrying out endometrial ablation which the female doctor never even mentioned.

Gynaecologists are always better if you see them privately, IME. Longer appointments and less adherence to NHS protocols.

I had a male midwife at my 30 something week check. It came as a shock as I expected to see my regular female midwife. I’d had a list of questions to ask including ones about vaginal discharge but I just couldn’t bring myself to talk about my intimate problems with this man who i’d never met before. I let him take my blood pressure and ask me about my diet, then I left without asking my questions.

I don’t care what anyone else choses for themselves but I need to be ask before I’m sent alone into a room with man who wants to do medical things to me when I’m at my most vulnerable.

Gynaecologists are always better if you see them privately, IME. Longer appointments and less adherence to NHS protocols

I appreciate that but the female doctor at the Well Woman clinic never even mentioned endometrial ablation. Her suggestion was a long term contraceptive implant. The gynaecologist was bemused why this had been suggested; given the potential for nasty side effects. He explained endometrial ablation means no future pregnancy is possible but he , rightly, assumed that given my age and the fact my only child was a teenager that it was unlikely I wanted to conceive.

Norethisterone is usually first line, followed by Mirena. They are both cheap and effective and fully reversible. Ablation costs more and there are more irreversible (if not frequent) problems to contend with. Hysterectomy more so. It makes sense when dealing with large numbers, and also with individuals whose problems are solved with Mirena who do not have to go on to surgery. She was just following the guidelines. Unfortunately this also comes with back and forth appointments and trying it to prove it is not what you want etc.

I got my prolapse repaired within a month privately. Otherwise, I would have had to go through the hoops of managing constipation and physiotherapy which I didn't need first, and all the referral procedures. The Gynae had time to explain the pros and cons and was patient with my slowness. My friend saw him at a much shorter appt and found him brusque which does not surprise me in the least. I got the impression that he was trying very hard with his social skills

I wouldn't mind. I don;t mind blokes doing smears either. A lot of women do though.

Honestly, before I actually ever went into Labour I might have thought I would mind a little. But when it came down to it, the only thing I actually cared about was getting the baby out, and the drugs to chill the pain a bit, especially after 30 hours!

I'm a bit late to this thread, but will join in anyway!

Before my baby was born I'd have said I would have been very uncomfortable with a male midwife. Now, I think I would be OK with it, but my considerations are different and influenced by a few factors:

1 - my birth with DC did not go well, had a young female midwife who ignored that I was in labour for hours and we ended up in a big emergency (lots of doctors running in, some of whom were men). That has (unfairly) made me less trustful of young midwives who have not given birth themselves (even though I know deep down that midwives who have given birth could have been just as careless).

2 - I listened to a programme on midwifery on Woman's Hour about a year ago and there were 3 midwives talking about their profession, one was a newly qualified young man. He sounded lovely, and so passionate about his job and about looking after women, said it was a privilege to look after women at such an important time. I remember thinking that it might well take someone like him to push through all the barriers to men in midwifery and he was probably a better midwife (than average) because of that.

3 - I have (and in conflict with 2) become more wary of men in medicine due to Dr Harrop and Dr Jesson's clear misogyny, which would, I think, make me more on the look-out for any signs of misogyny from a male HCP, and if I sensed it then I would feel extremely distressed if I was relying on them for such intimate care at such a vulnerable time as childbirth. Whether I would be able to voice my concerns at the time to ask for someone else, I don't know, but either way it would probably result in a very distressing experience.

I have (and in conflict with 2) become more wary of men in medicine due to Dr Harrop and Dr Jesson's clear misogyny, which would, I think, make me more on the look-out for any signs of misogyny from a male HCP I had a really bad first experience with a male consultant when my first pregnancy went wrong - he was well beyond rude and messed my care around. I was told that although he had a bad 'bedside manner' (ie he had none) that he was very good (not my experience) and that if I heard what the other consultants said about the patients blah blah...……………….. so I am wary now.

www.telegraph.co.uk/men/11884688/A-male-midwifes-guide-to-the-birth-process.html

This is an interesting article with midwife mark harris (he’s written a few books on birth I think) he says he’s delivered 500+ babies and only had women decline being looked after by him on less than 5 occasions which is surprising.

Norethisterone is usually first line, followed by Mirena. They are both cheap and effective and fully reversible

She suggested the one that goes in your arm. I don't know what that is. She rightly explained all the side effects. When I asked if it could be removed if I had problems she was extremely snippy and told me it could but it cost the NHS money to remove it.

he says he’s delivered 500+ babies and only had women decline being looked after by him on less than 5 occasions which is surprising.

I don't think that is that surprising, because I think that even if women weren't OK with it, they wouldn't say (not wanting to hurt his feelings, not feeling like they had a choice, not wanting to make a scene, not wanting to cause a problem, etc) they'd just quietly suffer their discomfort.

Hopefully he's really good though and put them all at ease really quickly.

As for the 'males in female professions are always better than the female' phenomenon..it does seem that way a lot of the time. Definitely with teachers. Similar to how a dad who takes his child out for the day is absolutely amazing to many. DH actually gets quite offended when the women flock to tell him how he is so great for bringing his children out for the day. Lauded for being a decent parents, just as he has a penis.

Mind, I have to say, I got a smear done by a male doctor and it was actually fine, where whenever I get the nurse (female) its seriously painful and she always rolls her eyes and says 'its nothing, women get this done all the time, stop exaggerating' and that