"If recording my own rape isn't enough evidence, what is?"

[ReallyAngryNow]

www.eveningtelegraph.co.uk/fp/young-woman-who-recorded-herself-being-raped-by-her-ex-slams-his-acquittal/?fbclid=IwAR0wquQcg11GhrXG2mR0zdeqXrLsW6SaagR_zcTVE4pB5t90sK3At9fvQQs

NC for this because it’s in my local area and don’t want my other very outing posts linked together.

I’ve had enough of this shit. Seriously. What can we do? I feel like every day we read about rapists and abusers walking free, and very rarely hear about them ever being punished.

My mum doesnt believe I was raped because I wouldn't go to the police to press charges against my husband.

I dont talk to her anymore, but these cases are reasons I didnt go.

What chance did I have, if this didnt end in conviction. Stuff like this devastated me. Theres no justice

My god!!! Poor woman! She would have appeared unemotional due to being traumatised by the rape and desensitised by need to continuously having to repeat herself through the whole process.

Talk about adding insult to injury. Putting herself through all that ordeal to be called a liar. The whole system is systematically broken. Needs reform.

It was evidence taken by the complainant, and the jury wouldn't be sure what was said before or after the recording. I'm just curious as to how they arrived at a not proven verdict.

I'm not sure if that evidence would be regarded as hearsay?

No it wouldn't. You don't know what hearsay means.

It's documentary evidence, not hearsay.

Rape is legal in the UK. Role play and BDSM have seen to that

Totally agree with this, Sarah. The court process is there simply to vindicate the rapist and tell the victim that nothing happened to her.

Is there a woman on this thread who is surprised this happened?

Actually I am surprised, even though I do some work with the criminal justice system (not as a lawyer), so my expectations were fucking low anyway. But it seems I need to lower them further

I would never advise any woman to report a rape that isn't a jury-friendly 'conservatively dressed, sober virgin grabbed off a street by a stranger' rape (i.e. about 1 in 1000). Rape isn't legal, but it might as well be.

It was presented to the jury as documentary evidence? I didn't see that bit in the article.

averageman

Do you think you are adding anything to the conversation?

Well the thread title is asking, "What is enough evidence?". That's what I'm wondering. What evidence would be enough, if an audio recording by the complainant is insufficient?

Well, it wouldn't be a thread about a rape on Mumsnet if we have you're average man coming on to argue why we're wrong

I do think this case is shocking stuff, actually, and if this is the standard of rape juries - who acquit even after hearing a tape of the incident, described as "harrowing" - then no, the justice system for women suffering sex crimes is not fit for purpose.

*Your

goddammit.

Putthatlampshadeonyourhead

Gawd, I'll try again:

It wouldn't be a thread about rape on Mumsnet, if we didn't have an average man come on and tell us why we're all wrong.

Its this whole 'She loves it rough' defence that needs to be stopped right in its fucking tracks

It shouldn't be a defence

At all

Ever

And especially never in the case of a murder

Remember a few years ago, people used to say it wasn't real rape if he didn't hit you. Bruises were necessary.
Now being dead isn't enough.

It feels as if we are going backwards from a place where women were starting to be believed and courts were making a real effort to ensure a level of equity - but now it's back to a terrible Victorian attitude where women are seen as complicit on our own abuse - with porn being used as the 'rationale'.

Awful....

Remember a few years ago, people used to say it wasn't real rape if he didn't hit you. Bruises were necessary.
Now being dead isn't enough.

My god, it's heart-rending to see it written like that. You're spot on.

I would urge people to read the link in the op and not just the thread (which I sometimes do!).

It's worse than you think it's gong to be.

Feels like things are going backwards, or are these outcomes being reported more as women get angrier?

Only the jury heard all the evidence. This was one case that didn't result in a conviction, but it's worth bearing in mind that most trials do end up with a conviction. It's better to have ten guilty men go free than have one innocent man suffer.

It's makes my stomach turn.

There was a case near here (leeds) a couple of years ago where similar evidence was used and the rapist found guilty. His defence of 'we were messing around' didnt fly. He got a fairly long sentence, well long for rape. Not long enough though. I did hope that case was a signed we were turning corner and excuses such as 'it was role play' didnt work anymore.

So sad that I was so wrong.

it's worth bearing in mind that most trials do end up with a conviction.

What planet do you live on?

AverageMan most rape cases dont end in conviction.

So take your goady crap and fuck off.

Not sure I agree any situation where 10 rapists on the street is ok. But since you are a man, I wouldn't expect you to be able to understand or worry about that.

Thank fuck some men, can empathise.

Think someone is on the wind up here.
Best ignored maybe.

Rape cases do in England just over 50% I think.

Of course hardly any get to court out of a very low reporting rate.