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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children

721 replies

EweSurname · 07/04/2019 22:56

Looks like it's dropped!

Times article - calls to end transgender 'experiment' on children
OP posts:
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28
R0wantrees · 08/04/2019 00:59

Fourth One
'Doubts over evidence for using drugs on the young'
by Professor Carl Heneghan

see recent thread with link to Professor Heneghan's BMJpaper.
(head of Oxford's Evidence Based Medicine)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3518188-BMJ-Prof-Carl-Heneghan-Evidence-Based-Medicine-Oxford-Panorama-Trans-Kids-Gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-Evidence-review-concludes-There-are-significant-problems

Frogfish · 08/04/2019 01:10

So pleased to see this excellent & extensive reporting, but feel sick having read this in the gay conversion therapy article

One case has haunted her. “All the pushing was coming from the father to put the kid on puberty blockers. Thinking back on it now, I fear that the father was a paedophile and the child was being abused.”

GiantKitten · 08/04/2019 01:16

Frogfish yes, the implications of that made me feel sick too.

Sunshineofleith · 08/04/2019 01:18

Thank goodness the Times is protecting our kids. What a sad state we are in when we need the papers to safeguard our kids. I hope more people who work in gender clinics that are not for profit will speak out as I think they know they are complicit and if they care about this group of young people they will speak out about the unknown outcomes. Imagine being that professional who has to go home at night knowing you were signing a child over to a lifelong medical and surgical practice with no long term known outcomes, be that positive or negative.

RedDogsBeg · 08/04/2019 01:21

All you fab FWR regulars all said you felt something was afoot, how right you were. I feel phone lines to lawyers will be red hot tomorrow.

The Mail now needs to pick this up so it spreads further and into another demographic.

The use of children as some form of real time live experiment is what will hit the hardest, put that alongside the brainwashing pumped into schools, children's organisations, children's TV and all the rest and no-one in their right mind could fail to see how sinister, abusive and damaging this is.

I was pleased to see the comment about the insidious use of suicide and that the blame for that was placed squarely at the feet of Mermaids.

OldCrone · 08/04/2019 01:31

All five clinicians expressed concern over how little young people and their families were being told about the impact of hormone treatment on fertility and sexual function as adults. One claimed young people were unable to give “informed consent” because it was regarded as taboo to discuss the impact of medical intervention on later sexual function in such a young cohort.

Good to see this mentioned in the gay conversion article. If the child is too young for the doctors to be able to discuss sexual function with them, the child is too young for that treatment.

Datun · 08/04/2019 01:39

Bloody hell. Four articles!

And all the lobby groups in flat denial.

Plus

The GIDS said: “The trust engages with a number of support groups, with a wide range of different positions. These groups include Mermaids and Gendered Intelligence but also those with quite opposite views.

Who? Transgender Trend?

And they still sound like it is they taking advice from lobby groups, not the other way around. Weak cowards.

And bloody hats off to the five clinicians who resigned and blew the whistle.

And the EIGHTEEN who resigned in the last three years.

Eighteen.

NowtSalamander · 08/04/2019 01:47

I know we knew almost all of this already, but when you see it in black and white it’s a shocker.

I can only imagine what it’s like to see this if you didn’t know this already. Surely Penny cannot diliydally with that government investigation after this?!

TheCatsServant · 08/04/2019 01:51

Great articles. Well done The Times, and many thanks to those here who've posted the links in this thread.

Like the rest of you I dearly hope this really is the beginning of something big, but not counting my chickens and all that, as so many people and powerful organisations are up to their necks in this ideology, they won't "back down" without a massive fight.

Will show my support for The Times by buying a paper copy tomorrow!

flowerbombVR · 08/04/2019 02:04

Amazing !

Triumphant Star

barelove · 08/04/2019 02:15

Now that really is Brave and Stunning! 👏👏👏
Brilliant news. Can't believe I'll actually be buying the times tomorrow!

DarkDarkNight · 08/04/2019 02:26

I’ll be buying a copy tomorrow.

It will be interesting to see how mainstream media deals with this. I’m thinking of shows like This Morning, Philip Schofield and Holly Willoughby tripping over themselves to be ‘woke’, so painfully right-on they fail to see common sense.

HumberElla · 08/04/2019 02:44

Wow, this is sunlight indeed. Get ready for the massive upsurge in TRA backlash though. We will be told the media are attacking trans and feminists are hell bent on erasing them.

Buying times tomorrow. Might subscribe now too. I hope these journalists are galvanised into doing even more investigation into this issue. Some of the cases referred to by those clinicians are sickening and you can bet they are just the tip of the iceberg.

18 resignations!

MindTheMinotaur · 08/04/2019 03:17

My daughter caught part of the CBBC program 'I am Leo' (parental inattention while working, I know, I know). It caused her a lot of distress and still bothers her. She was convinced she could wake up and find that she'd become a boy and still thinks people can change sex despite us talking through it again and again. I deleted CBBC off the TV that day...it taught me a sobering lesson on the influence that say a single school session could have on children.

emerencealwayshopeful · 08/04/2019 03:27

Hooray for the 4 articles. Hopefully this is the beginning of better and more responsible support for vulnerable people.

Have just watched the 2 films linked. The cbbc one would have caused distress for 2 of my children. I would hate to try and answer my 9year olds questions about that content and my relief that we kept away from all this until puberty had well and truly ensured my eldest was comfortable as a boy/man is stronger than ever. All these adults supporting other adults to hurt children.

And the line about the father being a pedophile. I'll never unsee that.

InionEile · 08/04/2019 03:36

That piece on clinicians concerned about the transgender option being used as gay conversion therapy by some homophobic parents is horrifying.

LGB groups fought so long to get recognition and acceptance for their sexualities and that is all put at risk because of the need to pander to the altered reality of a tiny minority of people with a mental health issue.

Ditto for women - fought so long to break down gender norms, de-gender clothing and toys only to have the trans lobby to bring back the idea that a kid who likes pink and glitter and dancing must really be a girl and a kid who likes climbing and racing bikes and DIY must really be a boy. It's such a sick ideology that is pushing left-wing ideas in the wrong direction but the trans lobby has such a stranglehold on public debate, certainly here in the US at least.

No mainstream US media outlet would ever publish articles like those in the UK Times. Only the National Review or Fox News, both of which are quite extreme in their politics.

Destinysdaughter · 08/04/2019 03:42

Four articles, wow! The rest of the media CAN’T ignore this now, can they?

Look forward to the fallout from this...

Candidpeel · 08/04/2019 03:52

Wow!

💐💐💐💐 To Lucy Bannerman if she is visiting.

Scouts and Guides and all the other orgs that took Mermaids advice and adopted policies to treat children's expressed gender as their "true gender", encourage binding and view parents who disagree as unsupportive.

Penny Mordaunt and the ROGD investigation that never happened

The EHRC which got into bed with Mermaids and Gendered Intelligence to launch the development of guidance on transgender in schools (and then failed to launch any guidance, presumably because their is an impasse between legally compliant guidance and what these orgs are telling schools is the law)

The NSPCC

Stonewall

ITV and its credulous propaganda film butterflies And the BBC and I Am Leo

The Big Lottery Fund

The Green Party, Labour, Lib Dems, Tories

The Guardian, Open Democracy, Amnesty, Rights Info... Every right-on organisation that has facilitated and looked away.

Every organisation that has repeated and internalised the slur that women, mothers, lesbians raising the alarm over this are "evil T**Fs"

..... I hope they are sitting up now.

And 💐💐💐 Stephanie Davies Arai, Michele Moore, Heather Brunskill Evans, Helen Evans, Posie Parker, Caroline Farrow, Lily Maynard, Lisa Muggeridge (and many more), and Mumsnet

Candidpeel · 08/04/2019 03:53

Helen Watts I mean!

HumberElla · 08/04/2019 03:56

Absolutely Candidpeel, all of these. And we won’t forget.

Candidpeel · 08/04/2019 04:02

And I just want to post her Penny Mordaunt's answers to the questions on GIDS

Could you tell us more about [the enquiry into the rise in young girls experiencing gender dysphoria] and when the findings are likely to be released? — No answer

Children are being given experimental ‘puberty blockers’. Follow-up studies of the children post-18 have not taken place, but it is known that harm has taken place. Will you assure us that the promotion of such harm in schools will stop immediately? — The Gender Identity Development Service, which is more commonly referred to as ‘the Tavistock’ is the only NHS gender identity service for under-18s in England and Wales and is not promoted in schools. This is separate from Gender Identity Clinics for adults, of which there are seven in England and Wales. When it comes to medical treatment, there are age limits. Puberty blockers can only be given to children from about 12, who have gone through extensive counselling and discussion with their families and medical experts. Cross-sex hormones are only available at 16 and over, again, after a continued in depth look at how that child’s health is progressing, and surgery is only available to adults who are 18 and over. The Gender Identity Development Service for under-18s notes on its own website that there is not enough research out there on puberty blockers. This is something the NHS has been carefully and sensibly dealing with for years — making the best decision for each individual child, in conjunction with their families, weighing up all the risks. We have committed in our LGBT action Plan to improving our understanding of the impacts on children and adolescents of changing their gender. It is important to note that age limits for legal gender recognition are separate to age limits for medical treatment. The age limit for applying for legal gender recognition is 18, and there is no intention to change this.

What is your response to the recent Panorama Programme in which Professor Carl Heneghan (Oxford University, Evidence based Medicine) found there was significant problems with the way we treat trans children and informed consent is not possible? — No answer

Why is the Tavistock continuing to prescribe puberty blockers when their own study showed no benefit and an increase in self harm for girls who were on this treatment? Why are they being allowed to experiment on vulnerable children? The effects of puberty blockers need to be followed up in long term studies — why is this not happening? — No answer

Do you not think, based on the evidence, the NHS needs to delay any medical treatment of people with gender dysphoria until they are adult? — No answer

We need urgent investigation into why autistic children are being groomed into believing they are transgender in disproportionately large numbers. - We are aware of the fact there seems to be a higher prevalence of autistic spectrum conditions in clinically referred gender dysphoric adolescents than in the general adolescent population. This is something the NHS Gender Identity Development Service is looking at. If you would like to make me aware of specific details please do get in touch. [email protected]

2Where is the support for children and young people who detransition? —No answer

Ordinary women in Britain have tried to blow the whistle on the potentially disastrous effects of medicalising children who are questioning their gender roles — [how can they do this more effectively] where should they report their allegations? — No answer

CallMeWoman · 08/04/2019 04:08

I'll be buying more than one copy in order to send to a few key people....

tobee · 08/04/2019 04:26

God it makes me so fucking angry that, even after Jimmy Savile and kids company, no one paused to do any diligent research before waving people like Mermaids through. Seemingly listening to the emotional blackmail from Susie Green and the rest. Then just jumping headlong onto the bandwagon. Safeguarding not even an after thought.

Powergower · 08/04/2019 05:12

My strongly worded email to my law firm after they partnered with stonewall last month was met with a bullshit 'We all need to be more accepting of trans and stonewall help educate us all' reply. I'm so fucking happy right now. I've tried and tried and tried to discuss this with people and nearly everyone is terrified to say anything or completely brainwashed. Well done Times. Those poor poor kids.

Onatreebyariver · 08/04/2019 05:17

Everyone who can afford to should buy a copy today to show support. I’m going to send my husband to the shop first thing to buy a copy.

THANK YOU to the times.