Mermaids - new statement

[MsMcWoodle]

I can't find a thread that mentions this. Sorry if this has been covered but didn't want it to get lost:
Times Lucy has tried to question Mermaids again - but as usual, they won't be questioned and just put out a statement:
www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/tavistock-complaints-process.html

Dr Wong in the us said threaten suicide to get that you want. I believe the quote was ‘it worked for me’. I’ll need to check twitter for the link.

Safeguarding specifically forbids teachers/coaches/adult volunteers from interacting with children in closed groups on line.
Why is Mermaids allowed to ignore this?

When you have a few days training for HR,
Prince2 I believe.
You can write anything.

I suppose

Dr Wong in the us said threaten suicide to get that you want. I believe the quote was ‘it worked for me’. I’ll need to check twitter for the link.

recent Federalist article, By Jeremiah Keenan
‘Doctor’ Advises Threatening Suicide To Get Transgender Treatments For Kids
At a public library, Wallace Wong proudly described his children-only ‘gender therapy’ practice, noting that his youngest client is not yet three and that he has 501 foster kids in his practice.'
(extract)
"Dr. Wallace Wong, the psychologist who labeled Maxine transgender, is facing calls for an inquiry into the conduct of his practice.

On February 28, the day after Bowden’s decision was released, Wong spoke at an event hosted by Vancouver Public Library. In a tape of the event obtained by Canadian pro-family group Culture Guard, Wong is heard proudly describing the scope of his children-only “gender therapy” practice, noting that his youngest client is not yet three years old and that he has 501 orphans and foster kids in his local practice. (continues)

"Simpson expressed outrage at this “soaring” demand, claiming Wong was “gender-jacking” vulnerable children from the Ministry and “profiting” handsomely into the bargain.

Wong also had some startling advice for a parent seeking to get a child referred to his program. Although the questioner had not indicated any particular urgency, Wong explained that parents should exaggerate the severity of their child’s condition to their local health offices.

Wong said a suicide threat was an effective means of accomplishing this goal. While Wong framed the matter as the government’s fault and explained to his audience that it is “up to us as advocates” to change the situation, his message could not have been lost on anyone present.

“So what you need is, you know what? Pull a stunt. Suicide, every time, [then] they will give you what you need,” Wong said, adding that gender-dysphoric kids “learn that. They learn it very fast.” (continues)

thefederalist.com/2019/04/01/doctor-advises-threatening-suicide-get-transgender-treatments-kids/

On Kids Company my neighbour, who is in PR/marketing, worked for a firm who provided early pro bono support. They then withdrew. His only comment to me was that they had proved 'too chaotic'. Given subsequent events I assume there was a lot more to this and that they decided their probono efforts would be better focused elsewhere.

Mermaids does not tell people what to say or do, we provide information and resources only.

The questions to Mermaids suggest that the Times has information that that this is not the case?

I smell a legal embargo lifted.

Might be wrong, but someone is acting very very nervous.

I dread to think what is being said to kids on that forum.

We even warn people on here not to get advice by PM as so many people give bad advice and doing it on a thread means others can dispute it in full view.

Where IS the safeguarding here?

I also note moves by government to take action over social media which encourages suicide and self harm in some way.

That rather exposes Mermaids too.

"This is not Mermaids, but open discourse between peers".

On a closed Mermaids forum.

And Mumsnet FWR is open discourse between peers by that reasoning, surely? More so since all boards are open to public view.

Therefore MNHQ has no responsibility for any content on its site.

Amirite?

And I'm guessing that Mermaids sees no safeguarding issue with a 19 year old potentially talking to a 12 year old on its boards? And that is even if the older person is actually still a teenager - which of course is not guaranteed. Since Mermaids has no clue as to who they actually are.

It just screams grooming.

Therefore MNHQ has no responsibility for any content on its site.

No becacause it is open content so under pressure to delete anything remotely controversial. Can you imagine the furore if they allowed 8 year olds to post about gender dysphoria and their desire to take hormones.

More seriously I am only too happy to march on behalf of lesbian sisters. Just tell me where and when.

Surely now this is in the public domain, other newspapers will be scrambling to publish something too? Meaning this will reach more people via the Mail on Sunday, & the Sun. (Not placing bets on the Observer, but who knows)

Also I have a feeling that the ST could publish early if they choose, now that Mermaids have put their right-to-reply out publicly.

This needs to go onto the main boards. It affects all parents
Every time this happens (moved to main board) a whole load of people come along and say, we are wrong, it's a fabulous charity, you lot are a banned term, I dont care, why is this shit on the main board, etc etc. Seems plenty of people have no critical thinking skills at all and cannot see that one event happening could very easily lead to worse.

The clinicians claims that the factors outlined above combine to create an "unethical and toxic" clinical environment... How does Mermaids respond?

A: Don't care
Indeed.

Even I can see huge crossover between what happened at kids co and mermaids, right down to the funding.
Hopefully it won't be long now. Do we all get to say "I fuckin told you so" or do we have to be typical women and just crow about it to ourselves.

Treefloof

Exactly.

Mermaids does not tell people what to say or do, we provide information and resources only.

Mermaids Charity includes lobbying in its purposes. See 2017 Charity Commission scope documents (extract screenshot):
apps.charitycommission.gov.uk/Accounts/Ends75/0001160575_AC_20170331_E_C.PDF

Mermaids Charity has lobbied for specific healthcare interventions.
Mermaids Charity website acknowledges that it trains staff in NHS, Social Care & Education

Summarised in May 2018 Spectator article by James Kirkup;

(extract)
"Despite its influence, it is worth noting what Mermaids is not. It is not a research body. Its activities are support (for families) and advocacy: based on its contacts with those families, it argues for what it sees are better policies and practices by the NHS and others. It does not carry out or commission clinical or academic research. Its most recent annual report lists among its charitable activities “campaigning and advocacy” and says: “Mermaids has also become more active in lobbying”.

There is regular dialogue between Mermaids and the GIDS, but the two sides do not always agree. An example is on the time the GIDS team take to give referred children the hormone-blocking drugs that stop their bodies developing the physical characteristics associated with their birth sex.

In evidence to another Commons inquiry in 2015, Mermaids argued that GIDS should make such drugs available much more quickly. The GIDS team has generally resisted that call, more than once saying that “any decision around hormone treatment needs time and considered thought.”

And in evidence to that earlier committee, Dr Bernadette Wren of the GIDS said this:

“I know that Susie and Mermaids would like a fast track so that young people who are already well into puberty and feel that they know that they want to move forward into physical intervention would bypass our assessment process and move straight into physical intervention. We feel that is not an ethical way to practise.”

Here’s another summary. A transgender charity that says it is engaged in lobbying lobbied politicians and doctors to change the way children are treated by doctors. The doctors declined to make that change because it would be not be ethical to do so." (continues)

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

Even I can see huge crossover between what happened at kids co and mermaids, right down to the funding.
Hopefully it won't be long now. Do we all get to say "I fuckin told you so" or do we have to be typical women and just crow about it to ourselves.

There were and are very vulnerable children & young people being supported by Kids Company, Mermaids Charity etc

These groups of children & young people needed support.
When any organisation /charities fail the children & young people's ongoing needs are often forgotten.
There is also additional significant impact on any child/vulnerable person when organisations/adults believed to be deserving of trust are discredited.

Every time this happens (moved to main board) a whole load of people come along and say, we are wrong, it's a fabulous charity, you lot are a banned term, I dont care, why is this shit on the main board, etc etc. Seems plenty of people have no critical thinking skills at all and cannot see that one event happening could very easily lead to worse

There’s far less ‘fuck off back to bigots corner’ these days if we leak out into the main boards. There’s still a couple of TRA trolls, but there’s non of the big standard ‘Mum’ posters telling us not to be ‘mean’ anymore. This shit really is becoming indefensible.

These groups of children & young people needed support.
When any organisation /charities fail the children & young people's ongoing needs are often forgotten.
There is also additional significant impact on any child/vulnerable person when organisations/adults believed to be deserving of trust are discredited

It’s horrific. What is the government doing? I assume they just wait for the next well meaning but deluded individuals/opportunistic predators come along so they can throw money and pretend like they give a shit?

Saw this on twitter.

From part 2 of the mermaids training transcript:

docs.google.com/document/d/1NDOMlo2aEpBl2ySfKdEWCb1H94tZciKiqUffjH1ku0Y/edit

So over the years we’ve done a lot of work with NSPCC, Childline and particularly, the past like 3-5 years, online has become even more valuable because 40% of the young people who we support online cannot be ‘out’ at home...for various reasons, so, you know, and sometimes school may be the only place they can be themselves. So something you may be aware is that school may be supporting the child and they may be known as a pronoun in school and the parents don’t know about it because they can’t be ‘out’ at home. If the parents find out, it can become a safeguarding issue, so you need to be very careful about when you are talking about your cases.

...

We have two private forums – one for parents and carers and one for teens because we recognise that teens talk with their thumbs. So they can go on that from 12+ and it’s moderated and safeguarded so it’s a nice safe space for them to share, ask questions.

Part 1 of the transcript is here:

docs.google.com/document/d/1aeFV0T6j4PXvm1xZBS_50oSJYV-_gO8YMoFjKjNA_9Y/edit

Both the transcripts have links to the original audio files.

Front page of the Telegraph today

We perhaps shall find out.

Indeed we shall.

Great post, Red.

So over the years we’ve done a lot of work with NSPCC, Childline and particularly, the past like 3-5 years, online has become even more valuable because 40% of the young people who we support online cannot be ‘out’ at home...for various reasons, so, you know, and sometimes school may be the only place they can be themselves. So something you may be aware is that school may be supporting the child and they may be known as a pronoun in school and the parents don’t know about it because they can’t be ‘out’ at home. If the parents find out, it can become a safeguarding issue, so you need to be very careful about when you are talking about your cases.

This illustrates a failure to understand Safeguarding frameworks.

See recent short thread with important comments from posters who are experienced in Safeguarding with reference to school policies & best practice:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3531836-Has-anyone-had-a-meeting-with-their-childs-school-following-non-acknowledgement-of-reciept-of-Transgender-Trend-Schools-guide

Mermaids does not tell people what to say or do, we provide information and resources only.

Isn't that a contradiction in terms?

Yes they may not specifically tell Philip(pa) what to say or do but there will be a nice PDF full of helpful ideas.

Do they think we were born yesterday?