The NSPCC aren't right about this are they?

[Macareaux]

Oh wise and knowledgeable women of Mumsnet I don't think the EA2010 does this at all does it? I'm not 100% certain so don't want to wade in.

Macareaux

NSPCC: "Under the Equality Act, it's every trans person's right to be able to use the toilet they want."

The NSPCC is grossly misinformed here ... the Equality Act 2010 expresses no such requirement.

It is the Trans Lobby which is misinforming all of our public services and institutions.

The last paragraph in this letter from lawyers explains it very well:

"The Equality Act 2010 provides trans people with the important and necessary protection from discrimination on the basis of gender re-assignment. This is not the same as a general right of access to single sex spaces and services in all circumstances. It is established in case law that the comparator for a transgender person claiming discrimination in relation to gender re-assignment is not the sex which they are seeking transition to but that which they are seeking transition from. "

forwomen.scot/30/03/2019/tie-letter-legal-response/

It was once suggested to me that I could write a scheme of work and sell it as a book in my area of expertise. (I cba.)

What's happened is that a small number of teachers have the time /inclination to create schemes of work & books to sell

Its quite lucrative I imagine (as well as prestigious)

My friends who are Primary school teachers & mothers wouldn't have the time

Worth also being aware of Justin Hancock's company, 'BISH' which provides sex & relationship resources & training for secondary schools.

Many issues were identified with its resources:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3357713-BISH-proudly-supported-by

For all teachers in this thread and on Mumsnet generally:

here is the Equality Act 2010, Part 6, Chapter 1: Schools

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/6/chapter/1

see section 10, which relates to my earlier post;

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/part/6/chapter/1

Issues also observed & discussed last year with regards sex/gender & hostile position taken by 'Ditch the Label' founder & CEO Liam Hackett.

'Ditch the Label' provides a resources for teens in schools, clubs etc & has grown to become an international success.

Hackett's treatment of Prof Kathleen Stock was quite shocking for the founder of an anti-bullying charity

threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3299191-A-new-member-of-the-Leftie-Misogynists-club

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3334491-Womans-Hour-discusses-adult-bullying-with-representative-from-Ditch-The-Label-providing-expert-advice

.

When schools implement these transgender 'toolkits', they should be equality impact assessed, either by the schools themselves or by the LEA. Is there any evidence that this has been done? Because any such assessment (properly done) would clearly show the conflicts with the rights of girls.

I think equality impact assessments are so important whenever there is the possibility that the rights of two or more groups may be in conflict.

I also think that any pack or information going into schools should be assessed for how the messages might be received by all children of different ages and with different backgrounds.

For example, giving children the message that they should not bully or harass anyone for being different is a good one. But the message that someone else's identity is more important and valid than your own perception or recognition of facts is really dangerous. As are the messages that children will be receiving about the requirement to loosen their boundaries in order to be kind or because it is demanded of them by adults in order to be obedient.

This is fundemantal safeguarding stuff surely.

For sexually abused children these messages that they will be receiving are especially dangerous. Before a child (who is old enough) even thinks about telling another adult or in some other way 'escape' the abuse, she must first recognise that her abuser is not who he tells her he (or who he identifies as) and then she must have confidence in her ability to recognise this fact. Secondly she must have confidence that the adults around her will believe her recognition of the facts and not believe in the way her abuser presents or identifies himself. The child if old enough will understand and therefore be very anxious that what she is revealing may well be going completely against how everyone else perceives and identifies her abuser. She needs to have the confidence that society does not place higher value on someone's identity over and above others' recognition.

The messages children are receiving are so important and they will often not be the ones that adults think that they are conveying. Especially for an abused child who will find it harder to check her understanding with other adults.

This is just drawn from my experiences. I hope that it makes sense.

It is the Trans Lobby which is misinforming all of our public services and institutions.

Quite astonishing that a high-profile, well funded charity would allow public statements to be made by anyone not expert in the law in this area, especially when, in their ignorance, they may unquestioningly repeat what the lobby groups have told them.

Donors who value professionalism will take a dim view.

I saw this written yesterday in the Times:
"Trans ideology imposes adult values / views on children and their services.
Therapists mustn't discuss the feelings / thoughts behind a child's wish to transition - that's conversion therapy. Schools can keep a child's transition a secret from parents - parental responsibilities / rights don't matter. A teacher must keep a child's disclosures secret - confidentiality matters more than safeguarding. 12 year olds can share showers and a bedroom with a transitioning 16 year old boy and the Girl Guides will not tell parents - safeguarding doesn't matter.

At every stage competent child centred organisations have been hijacked and told that their knowledge, ethics, practices don't matter - trans lobby groups know better. As a result, once respected organisations like the NSPCC, Girl Guides, the Tavistock, much of the medical profession and too many schools have surrendered their competence, ethical practices and safeguarding knowledge in favour of pandering to these lobby groups. Unsurprising as the groups are funded and promoted by politicians"

It's a complete undermining of child centred practices in favour of .... well, if I said what I think I'd be deleted so will just leave it as 'adult centred demands and ideologies'.

Nobody equality impacts any of this stuff. If they did, the competing rights and evident dangers to specific groups would be apparent.

In that case they are breaking the law, and they'll have no defence when they're sued.

Assessing the impact on equality of proposed changes to policies, procedures and practices is not just something the law requires, it is a positive opportunity for public authorities to ensure they make better decisions based on robust evidence. The assessment does not necessarily have to take the form of a document called an Equality Impact Assessment (EIA) but you can choose to do so if it is helpful.

However, the case law indicates that some form of documentary evidence of compliance with the Public Sector Equality Duty (PSED) is valuable to public authorities when defending their decisions in court.

researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06591 (pdf link at the bottom of this page)

In that case they are breaking the law, and they'll have no defence when they're sued.

Oops! All these schools that have detached themselves from their former local authorities may have some cause for regret in the future, perhaps?

What's happened is that a small number of teachers have the time /inclination to create schemes of work & books to sell
*
Its quite lucrative I imagine (as well as prestigious)

My friends who are Primary school teachers & mothers wouldn't have the time*

Yes.

Charities and any interested person with some skills in presenting to children can write a scheme of work. They'd ideally structure it around the legal curriculum to make it of worth to schools.

It's worth noting that some parts of the latest legal curriculum under the tories are sparce and so some companies stepped up to pad it out further a few years ago (I know of one incidence, well.) There was a brand new primary curriculum ready to go under Labour (it had begun to be released) just before they lost to the coalition. It was very child centred and based on a lot of research (I think it came out of the Rose report).

I didn't intend to derail the thread; I'm making the points that:

Language matters
Sex matters
There's no active gatekeeping (that I'm aware of) in terms of language and sex.
The law matters.

If anyone - teachers, nspcc, is writing "trans" policy for anything to do with children, who are they going to?

Who should be gatekeeping?

Thanks Jacky for all those links.

Schools can keep a child's transition a secret from parents - parental responsibilities / rights don't matter. A teacher must keep a child's disclosures secret - confidentiality matters more than safeguarding. 12 year olds can share showers and a bedroom with a transitioning 16 year old boy and the Girl Guides will not tell parents - safeguarding doesn't matter.

I'm still very unclear exactly who is giving this instruction. What's the legal paper trail?

Extremely important post chicken. So, so important.

The messages children are receiving are so important and they will often not be the ones that adults think that they are conveying. Especially for an abused child who will find it harder to check her understanding with other adults.

Absolutely.

There's an extra fucking layer of chaos regarding gatekeeping thanks to the Tories as academies and free schools don't have to teach the national curriculum.

researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN06103

So it's extremely important charities like the NSPCC are held to account on this. Campaigns like the talk pants song are regularly used in schools.

So it's extremely important charities like the NSPCC are held to account on this.

YY, Neuro.

Chicken, you describe the issues so powerfully. Have you contacted them?

I'm sure this has been covered on FWR before but I'm just putting it here.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachmentdata/file/781150/DrafttguidanceRelationshipssEducationRelationshipssandSexxEducationRSEanddHealthEducation2.pdf

Point 82 and 89 seem pertinent, gender identity is mentioned in relation to the law.

NSPCC pants video and Stonewall are suggested as good sources to support the curriculum. The EA is mentioned a lot.

Points I mentioned

NeurotrashWarrior
Evidence paper trail for my points above: (hope that's what you're asking)
Schools keeping a child's transition a secret - see Cornwall / Scottish guidelines (and many others)
Teachers keeping disclosures from a child secret - GIRES online training "Caring for Gender non conforming young people" - look for case studies about Maisie

Schools being advised this by unaccountable organisations in total contravention of Working Together

Neurotrash:
In terms of who should be gatekeeping, it should be the DfE / politicians / Ofsted. It's also down to individual Heads and senior staff to exercise due diligence in ensuring that speakers and materials used are compliant with safeguarding etc - there was a paragraph emphasising this in the draft SRE guidelines .

However, regulatory / institutional capture appears to have rendered all these groups silent about safeguarding being undermined, the law and the EA being incorrectly interpreted etc.

Thanks revolutionary.

I was querying who above them - but I don't think there is.

I've posted some other things on the no outsiders thread and will copy here.

I have found this briefing paper interesting reading.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06103/SN06103.pdf

The previous Government’s Education White Paper, The Importance of Teaching, published in November 2010, stated:
Children need high-quality sex and relationships education so they can make wise and informed choices. We will work with teachers, parents, faith groups and campaign groups, such as Stonewall to make sure sex and relationships education encompasses an understanding of the ways in which humans love each other and stresses the importance of respecting individual autonomy.

2 Parents’ rights to withdraw a child from SRE
Section 405 of the Education Act 1996 enables parents to withdraw their children from sex education other than the sex education that is in the National Curriculum (such as the biological aspects of human growth and reproduction that are essential elements of National Curriculum Science).

There is nothing in the report about transgender identity. There's a paragraph on LGBT being integrated into the curriculum, not stand alone. There's a lot about same sex relationships. The majority is about consent and healthy relationships.

We will work with teachers, parents, faith groups and campaign groups, such as Stonewall

As you say, regulatory / institutional capture appears to have rendered all these groups silent about safeguarding being undermined, the law and the EA being incorrectly interpreted etc.

hipsterfun I will contact the NSPCC next week. I will try and update if I can.

Good luck, Chicken