Caroline farrow support thread 2

[ilovejeffgoldblum]

Hi I'm a long time lurker, who read with disgust the last thread and wants to send , to caro. I've scanned since last thread finished for new one but no luck! Hope no one minds if I start one!

I imagine there are two types of people who would go to the trouble of accessing child abuse sites on the dark web. Child abusers and the law enforcement looking for them.

Caro I hope this stops. I wish the police would take a real interest and take out the worst culprits because no doubt they will target people weaker than you if allowed to continue.

I imagine the spotlight will now be on the Time reporter.

Hope you and your family are okay Caro. Hang in there

Did Caro gain 2000 followers in the last week or am I doing Twitter wrong?? I thought she had 15k (odd) but looks like 17k (odd).

The other misogynistic doctor's contribution to discussion raised from Caro arguing against surrogacy. What a prat.

They have to bring down motherhood - one way or another. Just more misogyny from them.

That way they can discredit Caroline, Mumsnet - and all the other women & mothers - who are standing between children and the trans ideology which deems it appropriate and desirable to set gay/GNC children onto a pathway of lifelong medicalisation & surgery, when they are pre-teens.

Did anyone watch Caro on Sky News with Kay Burley?

Kay Burley has swallowed the "trans children" narrative whole.

When Caro talked of puberty blockers, sex hormones being given to children, Kay was like "and? Is that a bad thing?"

Yes Kay - it is a bad thing.

Dr Christian is made of the same stuff as Harrop. He’ll go too far one day. I hope people are keeping screenshots.

Agree Lizzie.

If Kay Burley suddenly became gender critical, it would me make pause and wonder whether I'd got it wrong ZebrasAreBras.

Ha good point.

I don't understand how anyone in journalism can read those Times articles, and think 'oh, that's ok, everything's fine' though

It must call for "pause for thought" for even the most ardent gender identity believer, surely.

Caro, you really are a lightning rod for the crazy stuff.

I agree with you on some things and not on others, but that does not matter. Free speech and the ability to voice your views are essential to a democracy. If I disagree with you I need to be able to work out why.

Though it must be awful you are doing all of us a service by illustrating how awful some of this is. I doubt any sane person can read some of it and believe you are the problem. The sheer nastiness and aggression is so obvious. Whether you are right or wrong, abuse rather than reasoned argument does not convince anyone.

And Kay Burley....

It not just on this subject where she has shown a lack of neutrality during a supposedly balanced debate. At minimum it is disrespectful to those she disagrees with.

I couldn’t believe that after I talked about a lifetime of medical intervention and surgery, Kay said “and that’s harmful, why?”

Proper peak trans moment.

And while it has upset a lot of people, I couldn’t let BB breezily get away with “two dads is healthy and normal.” It’s akin to Susie Green’s “trans girls are girls”.

Should families with 2 dads or 2 mums be stigmatised or made to feel awful? No. Should we teach children that families come in all shapes and sizes - definitely!! Should we teach them that the family ought to be a place of safety, love, respect and nurture, absolutely!!

But actually I don’t think we should ignore the fact that women are an integral part of baby-making.

And given his snappy defensive “commercial surrogacy isn’t legal”, it’ll be interesting to see whether Benjamin will be amongst those advocating for it.

I don't mind the kids learning about other families with 2 dads, or 2 mums - (although obviously the surrogacy thing is problematic in the case of dads. But that's another thread).

I really object to the Mermaids jelly baby gender stuff being added in though - the "are you a boy or a girl? girl brain/boy brain" rhetoric all mixed in though.

Leave the T out, keep the LGB in IMO.

What are your views on gay couples adopting Caroline?

@PCohle this is a support thread.

Perhaps if you want a debate you need to start your own thread.

I was genuinely asking. I can see Caroline's point with regard to the impact surrogacy has on women, and I was just wondering if her views extended to situations where that wasn't a factor.

I posted on the initial support thread offering support and have mentioned Caroline's experience to friends. I don't however particularly wish to continue supporting someone who's views regarding the gay community don't align with my own.

Caroline is perfectly free not to respond to me and I'm sure she'll cope just fine without my support. I'll leave the thread.

Sorry, that was my fault. Went into discussion mode.

It may be worth noting that Benjamin Butterworth who was debating Caro on Sky reportedly identified as black in order to be a BAME representative. Because his stepmother is black, apparently.

Just shows, if true, - and I've seen the screenshots asking him to step down - nothing will stop white males self-identifying their way into other groups and calling themselves "more oppressed than youuuu".

What are your views on gay couples adopting Caroline?

A strawman argument.

Even if Caroline did think it's was morally objectionable that is not an excuse to justify harassment and the level of abuse she has been on the receiving end of.

Freedom of thought is a human right enshrined in both British and European law.

People are entitled to hold views we dislike and object to, including a belief that gay couples should not adopt. The law prevents discrimination on this basis though.

I do not agree with Caroline on many issues. Indeed I find some of her views abhorrent. That still does not justify what's happening to her and her children.

Ultimately I do believe that trying to act like thought police usually has the opposite effect to the one intended anyway.

Pulling a straw man argument is disingenuous at best, and fails to under the purpose and intent of human rights, which apply to all, not just 'the good people' who 'have the right views'.

I was genuinely asking

No you weren't. You were looking to pick a fight and suggest that anyone who supports Caroline is a) tolerant of homophobia, b) a traitor to the gay community C) has the wrong opinion

Well that's not how human rights work.

They are held up by principles which protect us all.

I really was. I mean it's certainly lazy to ask rather than searching myself for Caroline's views on these issues, but it wasn't an attempt to pick a fight.

As I said, I've pointed friends to Caroline's experiences as an example of the problems with the current trans ideology. I won't continue to do that if I think her views are homophobic. That doesn't mean I was planning on criticising everyone who supports Caroline. It's just not something I would be comfortable doing myself.

Anyway, I really am leaving the thread this time!

I really was. I mean it's certainly lazy to ask rather than searching myself for Caroline's views on these issues, but it wasn't an attempt to pick a fight.

OK if you say so.

I think if 2 men can pass the screening and are prepared to give a child a secure and loving home, then who I am I to judge.

The case of the Scully-Hicks concerned me because it’s very difficult to adopt babies and I was worried about whether in their rush to be inclusive and welcoming as part of the new paradigm, social workers may have potentially overlooked warning factors. But then I know of straight couples approved for adoption who were completely unsuitable, so we have to be careful of generalisations.

That said, my bias (bigotry) whatever is for mums. I love women, I couldn’t espouse the things that I do without a genuine love of women, so my preference is always for a mum. Sorry dads.

Sorry back on subject. I had a poison pen letter today sent from America and naming my family members which was nice.

The other thing I would say about adoption is that the child has suffered trauma & will have potential attachment issues, so the key is as stable a home as possible.

Adoption should never be about the desires of the adults but the best interests of a child.