Good things that happen when you wear an "Adult Human Female" hoodie

[Candidpeel]

I live in mine when I'm not at work....

Mainly get smiles from older women and glares from blue haired teenagers.

Wore it on the Brexit March and "like your jumper" worked as a secret handshake to find a new member for our local GC meet-up group

Answered the door to a council election candidate in it today and had a great conversation about what the gender critical grown ups are trying to do to bring the Green party to its senses.

I haven't yet bumped into another hoodie wearer in the wild :)

What has happened to you when you wear yours?

@Fridasrage

Your original point about offence has been addressed a lot. There is an interesting discussion to be had about what strategies are effective and where and how compromise can achieve what we want better than direct action.

Why not start a new thread on that?

Surely you can see why a new poster who seems to keep the discussion going in circles and avoids stating their own views might be viewed with suspicion about their reasons for doing so on an existing thread?

@GuitarGeek

It's such a shame as there is discussion needed. But it seems that unless you are in the group wearing a hoodie/tshirt then you are the enemy. It does put people off from engaging, me included.

I presume you are new to MN, but it's all like this. I've had my head bitten off on FWR, but it pales next to AIBU. It's not about whether you agree, it's the general free-for-all tone of the popular boards. If the debate on this thread is too robust then honestly I think netmums might be a better fit.

(Must check whether there is a GC feminist board on netmums)

If you can put up with bolshy women then why not stay and post a thread of the kind I suggested above? It's not really surprising that people push back against criticism of someone doing something which is (sadly) a little brave in support of women's rights.

Yabbers - the OP is fairly clear: Good things that happen when you wear an "Adult Human Female" hoodie - What has happened to you when you wear yours?

Do you have a story to share?

I shared mine: a man was happy to see it because he could tell his wife about me and build her confidence to wear her own in public when she was out by herself.

That's the thread. It's an invitation for women to share good things that have happened to them.

Interesting that the OP cannot be respected and that we cannot have a thread with celebratory intent without it being brigaded. Even more interesting that brigading (active) is characterised as being bullied (passive). Are you familiar with the concept of DARVO?

Do you think “guys” is ok, redredrobins?

Why do you think it is that a word for men is supposed to include women, but there is no comparable word for women that is supposed to include men?

Where does the idea that male is the default human come from? Is that an idea or an ideology you wish to promote, support, enable?

Please don’t think I’m asking these questions in an accusatory or critical way. I am not trying to police your words, but genuinely asking you to think about it for yourself, seeing as you asked if it was “OK”.

Never mind whether it’s OK for others. Is it OK for you?

(Sorry! Complete derail! Something I’m thinking about atm!)

Ps redredrobins, congrats on the hoody and good luck with wearing it - that really does take courage, round there!

I'm so happy to see women here talking about their experiences of wearing an AHF top.

I think I'm now going to buy the tote bag - will suit me better.

This is a big move for me - as the past 18 months has been a time where I've been forced into silence. I'm now starting to speak up but it still makes me feel very guilty and ashamed.

It's Mother's Day here in the UK. I'm trying to feel good about myself and my abilities as a mother. It's hard - 2 years ago my Mother's Day experience was very different. My daughter showered me with love, affection, flowers and cake - and gratitude for the way she'd been raised. Today I sit here, with a cake in the oven for my own Mum, trying not to cry or feel upset.

My daughter says she's now my 'son'. She's re-written history to insist she's always felt like this.

I have tried to support and accept, but at the same time was driven almost mad by the absolute insistence that she was not a woman and never had been. I spoke my truth, as lovingly and kindly as I could - how could the female I gave birth to and raised for 20 years, happy in her femaleness, suddenly have become a trans 'boy'?

It is not possible to change sex. And those who develop gender dysphoria, or other mental health symptoms that make them hate their natal body and their sexed 'identity', need our help and love through therapy and support. Not through a path of affirmation, hormones and surgery.

Because I hope for an open future for my daughter she says she will never contact me again.

Genderism requires every one of us to affirm and acquiesce - or to stay silent.

Even if it is too late for my own daughter, I can no longer stay silent.

SisterWendyBuckett

💐

"but as trans people traditionally have had fewer rights and are seen as more vulnerable, it plays worse for GCFs"

I really cannot believe any woman in the world could believe this. Seriously, these are men who grew up with all of the advantages of being a man, when women were aborted in the womb or strangled at birth, but they are the most oppressed ever? Are you saying that a man who has lived his life, fathered children, had a male privilege successful career, and then decides to transition, was part of the most oppressed people ever?????

Tell that to women, tell than to a group of black men, tell that to a group of black women, tell that to a group of slaves....

I could go on but really your words speak for themselves.

What rights have trans people “traditionally” not had? Nobody seems able to give actual concrete examples, why is this?

Because the 'rights' they are talking about is the right to enter female spaces unfettered. Due to some magic words.

I think netmums might be a better fit..

What the flip is netmums?

Part of this site?

Gender is ideology. You're welcome to it, but don't try to force it on me.

I am well well aware of this. It is a religion I do not subscribe to. I wouldn't force it on anybody, ever, I want it gone.

But I am a pragmatist. Gender has taken hold. We've always has sex stereotyping and it's getting worse. If there was a way of ensuring that female spaces stayed female-only in some sort of work around that keeps everyone sweet then I would take it. Maybe as a service user who is afraid of her absuers I feel too desperate about this. I want this campaign to win too much. I am an insider to both the queer and radfem communities so I'm seeing and hearing both sides regularly and i can see what is more likely to convince people on the inside of the queer community that female space is important. But maybe they aren't who you're trying to reach. And I think perhaps this is the thing: were fighting on different fronts. I respect anybody who is holding a line here.

I concede the point made by someone else that because the word woman is tied to so much, historically and in policy and law, it would be too huge a concession. I understand that and I think this is the strongest argument for keeping it tied to female.

Some of us are still having to operate within and even tentatively talk to the queer community which we are inextricably surrounded by and our conversations within that might have to concede something to be understood at all. I am glad for those who keep pointing out that these two words (woman and female) are bound together at ever level of policy so an easy fix isn't possible. It's something I lose grip of. I am holding so many arguments at once in my mind that it becomes very difficult not to lose grip of some of them. Thank you.

I think that whether you believe in gender or you are a gender "atheist" (agenderist?) both these positions are part of a belief system. Sex isn't. This is where I see myself winning people over and securing the female-only space I very much rely on.

As I said, though, I admire the campaign from a distance, it is getting people talking and somebody needs to take that hard line.

It can't be me, and it can't be lots of woman who are still stuck in the endless gaslighting of their queer friends and family. We have to stick to a line which is further back. Only made possible by those women who are able to stride forward without significant risk to themselves or who have decided it is a sacrifice they are willing to make (kudos).

Good luck to everyone who is fighting this in whatever ways.

The t-shirts and hoodies are a symbol that shows us we are not alone. And it gives strength to those who see them. That should not be underestimated.

I agree with this. If somebody was wearing one, I'd feel all kinds of relief, even if I couldn't wear one myself.

And I think perhaps this is the thing: were fighting on different fronts. I respect anybody who is holding a line here.

Yes me too. Apologies, my response to you was a tad harsh.

The t-shirts and hoodies are a symbol that shows us we are not alone. And it gives strength to those who see them. That should not be underestimated.
Yes. Unfortunately I don't feel safe wearing one myself as I live and work in a small world and I don't trust my employer. But it would cheer me up tremendously to see one.

I had a rare lie in today and missed all the fun! Just spent the last hour or so catching up and was so impressed with the patience and intelligent arguing of the gc women on this thread. Erishkigal GabrielleNelson and too many more to have to go back and check spelling for mention ❤️

There are real discussions needed regarding balancing trans rights with the rights of women, for example, to women-only spaces. We really need to have these debates openly and we need them now.

Hello Geek and Rage welcome to Mumsnet, where real discussions on these and many more feminist issues are happening all day, everyday! We don't always agree with each other but, with a skilful balance of respect and passion, we allow each others voices to be heard and respond with information and intelligent critique that furthers the debate. After reading the thread so far, I'm not convinced that that was what you were after though?

Anyway, getting back to the OP, I wear my t-shirt and tote with the intention of supporting Women. Advertising is a multi million £ industry because it's well proved that displaying an image or statement, even for a fraction of a second, has an effect on the viewer. It follows that wearing clothing with slogans is a fantastic and effective way of getting a desired message across to the public.

Almost everyday that I wear my t-shirt, somebody will ask me what it means and why I'm wearing it. It's a brilliant conversation starter and EVERY single person that has asked me has not realised what is going on with the word Women and the disastrous consequences to women and girls that come from it's misappropriation.

I've had one man tell me that my Man Friday t-shirt was 'nasty' (when I was serving him in the shop I work in, so I couldn't question his response - he still bought his organic bananas!), but other than that every response has been positive and even appreciative for making the effort to spread awareness of what's happening to our rights.

Because of this thread, I'm now going to buy a hoodie!

I’m going to Brighton for a few days next month. This thread has reinforced my determination to wear my AFH hoodie and T-shirt while I’m there.

I think (to skip back a bit to an earlier point) the problem with the "we should all just try and find a compromise" approach is that what we are really saying here is "women, compromise yourself to appease men". Like in the Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie book "we should all be feminists" she talks about couples saying "I did it for peace in my marriage". She points out that men saying this use it to mean reducing (but not stopping) a behaviour they shouldn't have been doing in the first place (like going out ever night) whilst women say it to mean accepting treatment by men that they should never have been subjected to in the first place (like having sex more than they want to). Women "compromising" here is going to mean us giving up rights that should never have been challenged, and men accepting fewer rights than they asked for, but which is still more than they were ever entitled to. And make no mistake, it won't stop there. Once their foot is in the door they will come for the rest of our rights.

One reason that I think women struggle in negotiations is that we often start from a position of compromise, whilst men start just with what they want. I see this with my own partner, that I'll think about what I want and what he wants and offer a solution that is 50% of the way. He'll then counter with a position that is 100% his own interests. His will then present a position half way between our starting points as if that means 50%, whilst in reality that means 75% in his favour. I think that's a real danger here. For us to reach a 50/50 compromise, women need to start from a more extreme position.

@notajellybaby - 100% agree with you. And @Erishkegal and all the other wonderful posters who have put a lot more thought into their posts.

We need to keep fighting and I for one am not going to compromise on this.

Jeez louise, this thread has really taken off. I believe I was the first person to call guitargeek a man. I did that not because she disagreed but because I have never known a female guitar geek. My bad.

Anyway, I have been contemplating getting an Adult Human Female Tshirt. I'm a little afraid because I live in Wokeachusetts and I have no idea of the reaction I'd get. You've inspired me OP! I'm going to take the first step and order one today.

Jellybaby you're so right about the negotiating.

It's why the puuuullll is getting so much aggression from the TRAs, but we can't find or offer a compromise on this one. Once you dilute a right, it's only a privilege. And once that happens, it's removable.

I shook the hand of somebody wearing one recently. DS told her I have the same top at home.

Lots of people have given me a thumbs up for wearing mine. I wear it whilst running or gardening at the allotments. Even wear it at work on a dress down day.

What a delightful advertisement for a most practical garment...
Not only is there room for a bottle of gin in the capacious pocket, but there's also space at the top of the printing to practice my embroidery skills. What larks I shall have!

Perhaps "A transwoman is an..." or "Can you tell she's an..." Also, I've discovered that the cheaper knock-off versions are very popular with sections of the trans community.

Why would these be popular with the trans community?