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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Good things that happen when you wear an "Adult Human Female" hoodie

230 replies

Candidpeel · 30/03/2019 23:25

I live in mine when I'm not at work....

Mainly get smiles from older women and glares from blue haired teenagers.

Wore it on the Brexit March and "like your jumper" worked as a secret handshake to find a new member for our local GC meet-up group

Answered the door to a council election candidate in it today and had a great conversation about what the gender critical grown ups are trying to do to bring the Green party to its senses.

I haven't yet bumped into another hoodie wearer in the wild :)

What has happened to you when you wear yours?

OP posts:
Knicknackpaddyflak · 31/03/2019 09:40

What middle ground do you see? And which group - the political trans lobby or 52% of the population - would need to concede to get there?

What is the impact of conceding those things, particularly for 52% of the population? What are the unintended consequences? What precedents are set? What are the impacts on safeguarding, equality, safety, access to public life particularly for the most vulnerable of women?

If you look at the history of this debate, you will find that 'middle ground' and 'compromise' usually means 'women give up some rights'. And that impact assessments etc haven't even been done. Being nice and doing this nicely really isn't achieving much in protecting women's rights, children's rights and safeguarding in effect being hurled backwards. You will also find openly stated in TRA literature and manifestos that any concession of women's rights sacrificed to them will be regarded as a mere starting point. When the stated, undisguised political goal is to eliminate the definition of and rights of women and the safeguarding of children, what middle ground would be ok with you?

Ereshkigal · 31/03/2019 09:40

We are not a hive mind (as we keep telling TRA) but some people seem to get really shitty when anyone disagrees with them.

Actually some of their comments were rather shitty. I'm allowed to disagree with what they say, just as much as they are.

Sneering at people who are actually making a difference doesn't cover you in a glory.

Ereshkigal · 31/03/2019 09:42

Compromise at the idea that there can be male and female women

No. Absolutely not. Gender is ideology. You're welcome to it, but don't try to force it on me. It complete undermines everything.

PrinceOfPies · 31/03/2019 09:43

So you think saying that she must be a man is justified for not agreeing with you about a hoody?

Ereshkigal · 31/03/2019 09:43

There are some extremely naive people on this thread.

donquixotedelamancha · 31/03/2019 09:44

Twa not w but the hoody is silly, because everyone knows that. If they do not agree they are hardly likely to change their mind becau9sr of your jumper.

If that were true, I'd agree; but there are two reasons the slogan works:

  1. Most people are still not really aware of the issues.
  2. The political class are a long way from everyone else on this. More than awareness, we need to raise the importance of the issue.
Ereshkigal · 31/03/2019 09:44

One person made a throwaway comment about her username that could have even been a typo.

Knicknackpaddyflak · 31/03/2019 09:45

Also compare the offensiveness of wearing a t shirt with a dictionary definition on it (which has been termed as a 'hate crime') against a very public TW spokesperson for the TRA movement stating publicly that women have no right to choose a penis exclusionary sexual orientation and that non trans people (especially women) should in effect be murdered in the most vile and painful of ways. This has been decided to be perfectly acceptable and understandable.

Compare and contrast. Women pointing out facts (at risk of punishment, with police involvement). Male born people threatening to kill them. (Sympathy and tolerance and people saying oh it's just an idiom).

Spot where the power is. Spot which group is oppressed. And which group wants the other group to hand over rights and protections from them. Are you really all right with that?

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 31/03/2019 09:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PrinceOfPies · 31/03/2019 09:46

Sneering at people who are actually making a difference doesn't cover you in a glory.

I don't believe the hoody is making a difference. You either already know what it means and it's simply a way of saying you're in the GC club or it's a non thing. That's not informing anyone of anything.

Sneering at people for disagreeing isnt covering you in glory.

A shirt that explained the equality act might be useful but I admit wouldn't be as snappy. The stickers are a good idea because they give some info.

PrinceOfPies · 31/03/2019 09:47

The fact that displaying a simple factual definition causes so much debate shows us exactly how powerful the message

On a gendet critical forum it causes a debate. Elsewhere it's the definition of a penguin. Not interesting. There's no context.

PrinceOfPies · 31/03/2019 09:49

Most people are still not really aware of the issues

How will they be made aware from the tshirt?

RedToothBrush · 31/03/2019 09:50

I believe the best way to win protection for female women is to separate out sex and gender.

Gender is just a made up set of stereotypes though - ones primarily designed to produce social control. It's a nonsense.

Gender identity in this sense is also a nonsense because its the presentation of social control. That's not to say, don't appear in any way you like, it's just to say that you should not be bound by the social control that gender produces.

Why do women need to separate out out nonsense and not just 'be'?

I'm sorry but I don't get what 'separating out' even means apart from being bluntly gender critical and pointing out precisely what nonsense gender identity is!

PrinceOfPies · 31/03/2019 09:50

There are some extremely naive people on this thread

Yes they think the revolution is going to come in the form of a hoody.

And yes posters were still using him/her aftw9r the poster said she was a woman. Hell of a typo.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 31/03/2019 09:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Floisme · 31/03/2019 09:50

We really need to have these debates openly and we need them now.
We do indeed. What happens whenever women try and hold debates?

This is being hampered by the fact that the debate is so polarised and so vitriolic.
I think it's highly disingenuous - to quote your own word back at you - to imply that wearing a dictionary definition of 'woman' is in some way equivalent to masked people blocking stairways to try and stop women getting into a meeting.

There needs to be some degree of compromise
We had a compromise. It was called the Gender Recognition Act of 2004.

Ereshkigal · 31/03/2019 09:53

I don't believe the hoody is making a difference.

It's not just wearing a hoody that's making a difference. It's the people who are making the effort to make this political statement and raising awareness. It's not just about T shirts. If it weren't for some of these women, this debate wouldn't even be happening and GRA self ID would be a fait accompli.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 31/03/2019 09:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 31/03/2019 09:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ereshkigal · 31/03/2019 09:54

Yes they think the revolution is going to come in the form of a hoody.

No one thinks that. Don't be disingenuous.

Ereshkigal · 31/03/2019 09:57

If it weren't for some of these women, this debate wouldn't even be happening and GRA self ID would be a fait accompli.

I'm going to say this again, because I don't think some of the above mentioned naive people here are fully aware of it.

SpartacusAutisticusAHF · 31/03/2019 09:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ereshkigal · 31/03/2019 09:57

Thanks for posting that video, Spartacus.

teawamutu · 31/03/2019 09:59

I love mine - comfortable, awesome pocket. Have not had any obvious responses although I live in a very unwoke area so probably people are thinking yeah, and...?

It's my favourite piece of clothing and I don't wear it to be goady. I wear it because it took me two weeks to get up the courage to wear it outside the house. I wear it because I was genuinely scared to. And then when I did, nothing happened apart from I was outside and warm.

For me it's a motivator and a reminder to be brave, because being scared to wear a fucking jumper with a dictionary definition means things have got bad.

For me it's a positive statement and a rallying cry. I am not trying to offend anyone and I'll always have a constructive discussion but I'm thinking about women and girls, not the feelings of TW.

(And I really wanted to say 'if that makes sense' afterwards but fuck female socialisation I'm not going to Grin)

R0wantrees · 31/03/2019 10:00

I think I find the adult human female thing a bit confusing because I believe the best way to win protection for female women is to separate out sex and gender. Woman is a word attached to gender and female to sex. Why not separate them out rather than binding them together? Compromise at the idea that there can be male and female women but that sex matters

The idea that woman "is a word attached to gender & female to sex" is postmodernism + Queer theory.

It may be an idea that is widely believed/accepted amongst specific groups.

Words matter though & the definition of woman is relevent to everyone in society. It is also key in International Human Rights law specific to sex.