Times article on transgender athletes; Alex Kay Jelski

[MrsSnippyPants]

Getting his arse handed to him on Twitter. Does anyone have a share token?

Yes, I think the Times have just given him lots of rope. As others have said, this is blatant hypocrisy from a man who understands biology enough when he needs to distinguish which type of women have a womb.

There's "real people" and then there are incubators on legs...

ZuttZeVootEeeVro

Well spotted. Hadley freeman has made the same point.

Hadley Freeman
@HadleyFreeman
Replying to
@HJJoyceEcon
, and
@AlexKJTimes
As
@sarahditum
has pointed out, the telling phraseology in the piece about the fear of black men “raping your women” makes it clear women are not the intended audience of this article

That's the thing about misogyny, it's so ingrained that the misogynist doesn't realise they are demonstrating a thousand tells.

Sorry, Sarah Ditumade the point first.

Clever, clever woman.

As well as being misogynist and plain nasty, his argument is disengenius. His main beef is with Sharron and Martina but did either of those two call it a crusade? Alex does not quote them on it yet it is the main crux of his argument and appears in the headline. This is really poor journalism from someone in his position.

Sharon raised the Putin scenario as she had to race drugged up East Germans her whole career, state sanctioned cheating cost her an Olympic gold so obviously that will always be a focus of her arguments. I bet when she showed up at the Montreal Olympics at thirteen she thought that it was a ' highly unlikely scenario' that she would have to battle cheats her whole career but thats what happened and she ain't going to let it happen again. The numbers really don't matter, nor the intention - whether it's crusade is a debatable but it is certainly happening. The truth is this some transwomen are competing against women and costing them. I wonder if drugs in sport would be OK with Alex if there were only a few people doing it. He thinks that a few transwomen competing is OK, so how many is OK?

Our answer is simple, not a single one

what is his?

Damn! A smarter women got there first. I didn't copy her, even if the wording is almost exactly the same, honest.

I’m not pissed at the Times for printing it, JessicaWakefieldSVH, I’m delighted they printed it because it did the job I think they meant it to do: further expose the big steaming pile of TRA elephant shit in the room for the big steaming pile of elephant shit it is.

They gave him a ball made up of his own ill-informed, misogynistic, racist words to run with and he scored a massive TRA own goal with it. I think it was a genius move on the part of the Times.

Damn! A smarter women got there first. I didn't copy her, even if the wording is almost exactly the same, honest.

No, I know!!!

I have to say, since getting involved in all this, I think women are smarter than men. I just do. That might be sexist. But, it's been my experience.

Yes, I think the Times have just given him lots of rope. As others have said, this is blatant hypocrisy from a man who understands biology enough when he needs to distinguish which type of women have a womb.

This article was also a Times male sports journalist:
January 2018, by James Gheerbrant
'Sandra Forgues: becoming a woman was a victory more profound than the Olympic title'
(extract)
"In order to set up the interview, two armchairs need to be moved from the ground floor to an upstairs conference room. Before she would automatically have lent a hand; now she demurs bashfully as the photographer and I haul them up the staircase." (continues)

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sandra-forgues-becoming-a-woman-was-a-victory-more-profound-than-the-olympic-title-g9nmln697?shareToken=5f341e74109389398482e9cf7f264093

thread includes discussion re the links to campaign group within sports media:
"Sports Media LGBT+ (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) is a network group for industry professionals and newcomers who are members of the LGBT+ community.

The network also welcome our allies working in sports media – those who are straight and/or cisgender, and who are supportive of all LGBT+ people, their rights, gender equality, and inclusion in sport.

After an initial meeting in August 2017, the network was formally launched in November 2017 by Jon Holmes, who serves as network lead. Jon is Home Page Editor at Sky Sports, where he co-ordinates Sky’s support for Stonewall’s Rainbow Laces campaign.

Through the power of media and journalism, the network seeks to advocate for athletes, coaches, officials, administrators and all others involved in sport who are LGBT+, by amplifying their voices in order to highlight the benefits of authenticity and inspire others.'
sportsmedialgbt.com/about

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3472394-Sandra-Forgues-becoming-a-woman-was-a-victory-more-profound-than-the-Olympic-title

They gave him a ball made up of his own ill-informed, misogynistic, racist words to run with and he scored a massive TRA own goal with it. I think it was a genius move on the part of the Times.

Inclined to agree.

The numbers really don't matter, nor the intention

This is a good point. Male trans athletes may not intend to have a negative impact on women's sport, or remove opportunities for individual girls and women, but they do.
Just like male transpeople may not intend to make women and girls uncomfortable in single sex spaces.

I suspect that a proportion of trans athletes know their advantage and wouldn't compete. Unfortunately, a proportion don't realise or don't care. It's because of those althetes rules need to be in place.

Men like the author need to stop blaming women for the selfish action of some trans althetes.

They gave him a ball made up of his own ill-informed, misogynistic, racist words to run with and he scored a massive TRA own goal with it. I think it was a genius move on the part of the Times.

Inclined to agree. Even if unintentional I think it's great that they printed it for the above reasons.

" she demurs bashfully"

I think I am going to be sick

Patronising git

That is one dull article. I cannot believe that it was printed. In a nutshell, we should let trans people choose which category they compete in because of one debunked rubbish ‘study’ of 8 trans runners self-reporting (i.e. Bad Science) and because it would be kind and because it’s only a few people anyway.
Er really?
So no scientific evidence
And forgetting that there are only a few athletes at elite level
And he can Fuck right off asking WAGs to be nicer.
Grr misogynists suck big time

from the article:
She and Martina Navratilova are important, influential voices who speak for many women on this topic. They, like most of us, are not experts though. And while it’s important to hear and respect people’s views, I disagree and worry a circus is being created out of something that a) is not a huge problem in sport and b) further marginalises totally unthreatening people and creates a narrative of fear around them.

This should be the focus of some actual investigative journalists.
Who were the 'experts' who have had so much influence/impact on female sport?
Were they experienced athletes / coaches ?
Were they sports scientists?
Were they experts in sporting rules, ethics etc?
Were they female?

In the UK it seems that Delia Johnston played a key role in many sporting bodies trans-inclusion policies.
Also that Edward Lord was involved with the FA's inclusion policies which Johnston explains influenced others.

Interviews with background to Delia Johnston's background & expertise:

'Transsexual Delia Johnston - I hated sport before my sex change'
(extract)
"She works closely with sport governing bodies in the UK to try to encourage more trans people to participate in sport."
www.bbc.com/sport/get-inspired/31748076

Transgender woman on struggle with new identity – and how she was accepted by the FA, but not her daughter
(extract)
"She now works as specialist diversity consultant for Trans In Sport, Northamptonshire Police and England Netball, fighting for the rights of the transgender community."

metro.co.uk/2015/10/21/transgender-woman-on-her-desperate-struggle-with-her-new-identity-and-how-she-was-accepted-by-the-fa-but-not-her-daughter-5376352/

TedTalk:

Yeps he knows the difference when woman is useful to carry a baby for him. That’s when he sees a difference

Yes, and so horribly, hideously hypocritcal, since it's absolutely because women's bodies are designed to carry babies that we are at a disadvantage in competing against males!

kesstrel
I note from pinned tweet that he set up a facebook group for LGBT+ parents earlier because "there's barely any support for all the weird and awkward problems that come your way." In the replies people signpost Alex to well established groups for gay parents until it becomes apparent that his focus is because, "We were surrogacy. ....Hit lots of hurdles with hospital, councils, GP etc with the babies"

Is it my imagination or are the mods at The Times (currently) having a lax approach to allowing comments to stand? There are some surprisingly critical comments still under the article, eg:

Did you consider a transwoman as surrogate for your future child? If not why not? Suddenly that annoying biology makes itself felt, doesn't it?

Yep, hatchet job by the editor there.

" Of course you can have a platform, Alex..."

It's clear than when he says same sex, he means men using surrogate women. He's sent it to Tom Daley and Elton John rather than Sandi Toksvig

OrchidInTheSun interesting that 'obtaining funds from Stonewall' features as an aim.
Quite a specific political wish for a 'friendly parenting group'

I rarely say this but seeing how he blithely tweeted about how “we were surrogate” yet denies biological reality when it comes to women and girls and sport...what an absolute c*nt

Or you could let people quietly go about their lives and acknowledge that they have been through hell compared to you.

Excellent, I've had quite a hard life, maybe I deserve an Olympic gold as compensation.

This isn't the first incredibly blinkered, sexist piece from male sports journalists.
This isn't the first incredibly blinkeed, sexist piece from gay male sports journalists.

This isn’t even the first example of Alex Kay-Jelski being blinkered and sexist. He applauded Jonathan Liew’s piece on trans women in female sport in The Independent last month. I guess it inspired him to write his own version.

twitter.com/AlexKJTimes/status/1099255347175440384?s=20

www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/caster-semenya-news-gender-martina-navratilova-trans-cas-jonathan-liew-column-a8792861.html

They’re coming! Over the horizon, they’re coming! They’re coming for your medals and your trophies and your endorsement contracts. They’re coming, with their giant bulging muscles and enormous flapping penises, to ruin everything pure and good. Nothing will ever be the same again. Nothing means anything any more. For the trans people - and let’s call them what they are, men in sports bras - are coming. And all is lost.

[...]

But let’s follow this argument all the way through. Let’s say the floodgates do open. Let’s say transgender athletes pour into women’s sport, and let’s say, despite the flimsy and poorly-understood relationship between testosterone and elite performance, they dominate everything they touch. They sweep up Grand Slam tennis titles and cycling world championships. They monopolise the Olympics. They fill our football and cricket and netball teams. Why would that be bad? Really?

If I was in charge people who have been as openly misogynistic and contemptuous of women as Alex would not be allowed, by law, to use a surrogate. Because of the potential harm to the surrogate and almost certain harm to any female child born of that surrogate.