‘More acceptance’ of S&M needed

[Imnobody4]

talkradio.co.uk/news/more-acceptance-needed-sm-activities-19032230392
My morning isn't starting well. Haven't heard the programme - not sure I could stand it.

ll this discussion about "good doms" vs "bad doms" and "people who do it right vs people who don't" and "SSC" is bait and switch. Telling newbies this exists lures the victim into a false sense of security. No one has to be in the community very long to find there are large numbers of people in the community who are "bad doms" or who "don't do SSC right" or who think "SSC is for wusses" or whatever. If you feel like really looking around for this you can find multiple essays on BDSM blogs and sites challenging the idea that we should limit ourself by such terrible constraining ideas.
Consent culture came out of the BDSM community. Why? Because it was widely known many doms acted without consent as soon as their sub was tied up, and afterward her complaints would not be taken seriously by the community. In other words "bad doms" were rapists who took advantage of the BDSM community to serially rape and abuse, everyone knew about it, and no one cared to stop it.
The makers of the Consent Culture workshops were harassed and abused by the BDSM community until they watered their workshops down into meaningless pablum ("Women do it too!" "Even in the vanilla world get consent before hugging people!" "Consent is this big spectrum!" "We in the BDSM world are sooo much better at consent than those stupid vanilla people, we just have a few bad apples!") Anything to deny there is fundamentally a serious problem with saying it is okay to tie up another person, gag them, and beat and choke them for your sexual pleasure.

lol I love the sad old trope, always said by little handmaidens of the BDSM wolrd "You don't know anything about it, you vanilla outsider!"

How do you know that? Must I rehash every horrific moment of my years in the BDSM slavery lifestyle to prove my deep knowledge of your little cult?

BDSM does not LEAD to assault. BDSM is ALREADY assault. Anytime you hit someone, it is assault.
In many cases, it is also rape.
You don't have to ban it, it is already illegal, but of course not prosecuted since men get to abuse women all they want.
The issue is getting judges to jail abusive men and not accept their "it was BDSM and she wanted it!" as an excuse.

Oldermum156

My understanding too Oldermum

Yeah, more chances for blokes to get off with kiling women with the 'she consented' line.

S&M is something that should be practised behind closed doors anyway, so quite why we need 'mainstream acceptance' of a kink, I don't know. Do we need more acceptance of people who like golden showers and such? Or gangbangs? And so on..

Self harm is exactly what it says on the bottle. Harm. If you asked someone to cut you so that you could feel pain because of your mental health or as a coping mechanism for inner pain, that would be wrong too IME.

So that's a start; all we have to do now is ask how many BDSM "subs" fall into that category.

Just a few or the majority?

Just a few or the majority?
I think this would be very difficult to tell. Personally the d/s people I have known have come into it not for these reasons (trauma or harm) as did I, but obviously that is not an accurate measure.
There used to be more awareness about the dangers of being involved in BDSM if someone was inclined to self harm and sadly I think this has dwindled within the community itself, so naturally warnings of it are not going to reach the mainstream.
I have also heard quite often that people get into BDSM when living with chronic pain (physical) and that they use S/m to escape from that as it forces them to concentrate on other areas of their bodies, temporarily relieving them from what pain they are affected from. This I think I can see more positively than using it to deal with psychological pain.
There are also people who self inflict pain for an adrenaline rush though. Jackass for some reason is in my mind. I wouldn't class that sort of self harm in the same way that I would with a person hurting themselves as a result of negative implications or mental health, even though the physical definition may be the same, the intent is vastly different.

I don’t know if that’s necessarily true agirlhas. Nearly every single one of the guys on Jackass ended up with severe drug abuse issues (if they didn’t already have them on the show).

I think the root cause is often the same, it just manifests differently.

I don’t know if that’s necessarily true agirlhas. Nearly every single one of the guys on Jackass ended up with severe drug abuse issues (if they didn’t already have them on the show).
Well I can't pretend I am surprised by that in truth.
The science of pain equating to pleasure is quite simple as far as I am aware though-the release of neurotransmitters such as dopamine, adrenalin and serotonin, producing a chemical high. Sometimes, but not always, sex can accelerate these responses even further and sometimes this is the sole gratification intended and sex is altogether irrelevant.
Of course someone suffering mental health and especially involving self harm (or on drugs/alcohol) may not be able to make accurate risk assessments.

There are also people who self inflict pain for an adrenaline rush though. Jackass for some reason is in my mind.

Also jackass was a group of young working class men putting their bodies in danger in order to become rich and famous, because people enjoy watching it.
Same as boxing, it could be argued it is male prostitution.

They weren't doing it for the adrenaline, they were doing it for money.

Self-flagellation is not restricted to Catholics. It is part of the Islamic festival of Muharram. The bloody public commemorations are associated with certain Shia communities, according to this:
www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2007/01/2008525172518879666.html

Asphyxiation, or breath restriction, is not limited to BDSM. Children seek it out and die from it (and presumably many don't die from it). In case you think it's automatically linked to pornsick adolescent boys, I recall a coroner's case some time ago, long before easy access to online porn.
He was seeking the moment of lightheadedness and euphoria that comes from breathing again after temporarily cutting off the flow of blood and oxygen to the brain. Instead, he died. The cause listed by police: the “Choking Game.”
time.com/5189584/choking-game-pass-out-challenge/

I think with the kids asphyxiating it is more about trying to get a cheap high - wanting to get 'off your head'- like sniffing aerosols or glue. I remember it being a thing at my school. I would class it as a form of self-harm and nihilism because of the mentality behind it. A really - 'fuck it, nothing matters and neither do I' teenage unhappy longing to escape. Something of a deathwish - the same kids who took up smoking early.

When adults, who can freely obtain alcohol and drugs, do it, it's a matter of choice and it is about BDSM.

The thing I think is interesting abut the Catholic BDSM (Catholicism predates Islam) is that Rome was all about dominance, overpowering and controlling populations by force and enslaving.

Grassroots Christianity threatened the Empire so it converted to Christianity to keep some sort of hold over the population, which became the Catholic Church. (There's a good BBC documentary by Bettany Hughes at the moment talking about how Rome was a kind of 'death' worshipping cult, putting a minor god -Mars - the god of war up in the prime position). Because Christians were total pacifists, it took the concocted concept of 'holy war' to mobilise Christians into Roman belligerence.

So the Catholic Church absorbed some of the Roman 'death cult' into its practices.

Islam is also a religion spread by belligerence and Islam literally means 'submit' - so no surprises they are into BDSM too.

The phenomenololgical content of BDSM fantasies are likely , imo, rationalisations and coping with echos of real life trauma of bondage, domination, forced submission and subjection to pain. It suits the beneficiaries of the status quo to have people wanking off to pretend and play abuse, torture, enslavement and humiliation. It minimises the seriousness of it in real life.

It minimises the seriousness of it in real life.
Where as I would say it does the exact opposite.
I can't quite understand why even after studies have shown that BDSM participants on a whole are less likely to have mental health problems than those who do not partake, arm chair psychologists continue to persevere with this view that fetish=trauma.
Describing someone to have a sexual dysfunction, I think, can be quite damaging. It is horrible to think that women who have been told this may believe that they want real actual abuse/rape/DV as a result of their 'hyper sexuality' and go on to think that these things are ok because of it.
If the lines between BDSM and these things continue to be blurred I can see more men continuing to use it as an excuse to harm women and get away with it. It has to be that if a woman has been raped/abused or killed BDSM is never a reason and her sexual or otherwise recreational interests are not considered in any conviction.

..Same as boxing, it could be argued it is male prostitution...

That's got me thinking. Boxing, yeah..

And what about that weird shit on those (Japanese?) game shows where people get hurt in ever more bizarre ways...

studies have shown that BDSM participants on a whole are less likely to have mental health problems

Bullshit.

Describing someone to have a sexual dysfunction, I think, can be quite damaging

Having a sexual dysfuction means the damage is already done.

what about that weird shit on those (Japanese?) game shows where people get hurt in ever more bizarre ways...

They are pandering to sadists - like I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here. I can't stand the disgusting challenges.

It minimises the seriousness of it in real life.

Where as I would say it does the exact opposite.

Could you explain how a bunch of privileged 1st worlders play acting slavery, confinement and torture raises the importance of these things in real life?

Move over Human Rights Activists, play acting and wanking over human atrocities is going to save the world.

Bullshit
Compelling argument I do apologise for clearly I am misinformed.
Having a sexual dysfuction means the damage is already done.
A sexual dysfunction is a condition that interferes with sexual arousal, like erectile dysfunction, low libido or pain caused by penetration/penetrating. It is not what mentally stimulates you.
Could you explain how a bunch of privileged 1st worlders play acting slavery, confinement and torture raises the importance of these things in real life?
It's not the physical actions that highlight them (to me at least) it's the context in which they are preformed.

• with the exception of porn.

It's not the physical actions that highlight them (to me at least) it's the context in which they are preformed.

Not getting you. Could you explain? The way I see it is, for example, having one person dressed as a Nazi guard and the other as a concentration camp prisoner in order for both to get off on the idea of power imbalance and torture, does nothing to address the profound seriousness of the Holocaust - it in fact minimises it. How would the context change that?