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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another Mermaid statement: about Good Morning Britain and Caroline Farrow

262 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/03/2019 21:03

Apparently Farrow will be on GMB tomorrow.

There are some interesting bits in this statement:

Jackie is, of course, deeply upset by the reference to her as being mutilated, castrated and sterilised.

Jackie is also distressed at the assertion that this was something that was somehow done ‘to her’. The only people deliberately doing anything 'to her' are the online trolls using the most abusive language about her. She would like the online abuse to stop.

At 16, she undertook extensive psychological assessment from independent experts before she was cleared for, and undertook, gender reassignment surgery. Her competency and full knowledge of all the implications was clear.

At 25 she still considers that surgery, for her, was lifesaving, and is distressed at the implication that she was not capable and mature enough to make this decision.

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ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/03/2019 21:04

It seems the story is changing again - how did Jackie have extensive psychological assessment from multiple experts when they had the surgery pretty much bang on 16?

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JessicaWakefieldSVH · 24/03/2019 21:07

Jackie is 25 now, but was 15 when taken to Thailand so it’s absolutely accurate it was done ‘to’ Jackie.

It’s illegal in this country Susie, and you’ve made a career of talking about it. You are responsible for how your child is feeling now.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/03/2019 21:08

Oops, I forgot the link

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/mermaids-statement-about-good-morning-britain-and-caroline-farrow.html

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EweSurname · 24/03/2019 21:09

A reminder that Susie is trying to get rid of extensive psychological assessments before children can be operated on

Susie Green 🧜‍♀️
@green_susie100
Marci Bowers saying surgery should be allowed based on competency NOT age of majority. Psychological assessment should not be needed for surgery as this is not required for cisgender surgeries of ANY type. Removal of the sterilisation clause is key 💜 @Mermaids_Gender #WPATH2018

twitter.com/green_susie100/status/1059817455395237888

BarbieJellyBabyBrain · 24/03/2019 21:10

At 16, she undertook extensive psychological assessment from independent experts before she was cleared for, and undertook, gender reassignment surgery. Her competency and full knowledge of all the implications was clear.

No she didn't. She went to Thailand for her 16th birthday.

Fucking lies.

zanahoria · 24/03/2019 21:11

" and is distressed at the implication that she was not capable and mature enough to make this decision. "

that is not just the opinion of randoms on the internet but the law of this country

terfsandwich · 24/03/2019 21:12

Hypocrite.
At least she's on the back foot. That tweet and the one saying "trans is not a negative outcome" for children who were just gender non conforming or homosexual will be what brings her down.

RedDogsBeg · 24/03/2019 21:12

Ah roll out the sympathy vote narrative.

Still doesn't get away from that fact that the operation SG's child had was illegal for a person of that age in the UK and made illegal in Thailand, where the operation was performed, for a person of that age immediately afterwards.

At 16, she undertook extensive psychological assessment from independent experts before she was cleared for, and undertook, gender reassignment surgery.

That needs challenging - which experts, where?

HavelockVetinari · 24/03/2019 21:12

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

zanahoria · 24/03/2019 21:12

and the experts were independent of the law

zanahoria · 24/03/2019 21:15

"Can the discussion about trans children please now become less toxic and abusive"

uh, who called the police?

" We welcome respectful and intelligent discussion about many topics involving transgender people"

oh no you don't

RedDogsBeg · 24/03/2019 21:16

Ewe have you got that tweet saved somewhere?

I find this bit chilling: Removal of the sterilisation clause is key. There in black and white is Susie Green and Mermaids advocating sterilising children.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/03/2019 21:16

SG seems to be really flailing, is it too much to hope that this is the start of the unravelling?

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R0wantrees · 24/03/2019 21:17

At 16, she undertook extensive psychological assessment from independent experts before she was cleared for, and undertook, gender reassignment surgery. Her competency and full knowledge of all the implications was clear.

This would likely be with Dr Norman Spack (USA) who prescribed the 'puberty blockers' & cross sex hormones.

Daily Mail interview with Susie Green
(extract)
Then, after being treated in the U.S. with hormone blockers to delay the onset of male puberty when she was 12 — the treatment was not then available for children her age in the UK — Jackie underwent gender reassignment surgery in Thailand on her 16th birthday.

a person standing on a snow covered slope: Susie, who was working as an IT manager and was by then a divorced mum of four, re-mortgaged their home in Leeds to raise the £13,500 to pay for Jackie’s lower body surgery© Provided by Associated Newspapers Limited Susie, who was working as an IT manager and was by then a divorced mum of four, re-mortgaged their home in Leeds to raise the £13,500 to pay for Jackie’s lower body surgery
‘Dr Suporn Watanyusakul, the surgeon, was regarded as the best in the world in his field,’ says Susie. And Jackie made history as the youngest person in the world ever to undergo the procedure.

Susie, who was working as an IT manager and was by then a divorced mum of four, re-mortgaged their home in Leeds to raise the £13,500 to pay for Jackie’s lower body surgery.

Over the preceding four years she had also spent around £20,000 on hormone treatment, blood tests, psychological assessments, therapy and travel to the U.S., where paediatric endocrinologist Dr Norman Spack treated Jackie at his clinic for transgender children." (continues)
www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/pregnancy-parenting/my-child-wouldn%E2%80%99t-be-here-today-if-she-hadn%E2%80%99t-gone-from-jack-to-jackie-defiant-mum-whose-harrowing-story-inspired-anna-friels-transgender-drama-butterfly-praises-show-which-critics-say-is-just-crude-propaganda/ar-BBOp5c5

see also
This documentary about Jackie Green's quest to win a beauty pageant (aged 18) is really worth watching:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkWv9cbda4c

In the documentary above it is important to be aware of the role that Dr Spack played in influencing and impacting both Susie & Jackie Green.

He has talked about how he deliberately prescribed cross sex hormone so that Jackie would not reach her natural height.

He is seen talking with Jackie Green and thanking her as she has helped his work. Susie Green also talks about how Dr Spack absolutely affirmed her child's belief at a very difficult time for the family & how important this relationship was.

His influence on the family as well as Mermaids charity is considerable and seems yet to gain much attention

From Daily Mail 2016:
'The woman who used to be a boy is now at the heart of a controversy over children as young as nine given drugs to change sex'
(extract)
"Scientific research on the impact of the hormone treatments on a young body is sparse. Some parents nevertheless ignore the NHS age rules and buy the hormones online or take their child to private clinics in the UK, the U.S., Holland or Germany.

Helen Webberley, a GP in Wales, has set up a gender clinic where a ‘handful’ of children have been put on cross-sex hormones, including a 12-year-old boy who was born a girl. According to Dr Webberley, this child had been on ‘blockers’ since the age of nine and did not want to wait until 16 to bring on his male puberty.

"The evangelist-in-chief for early medical intervention is 73-year-old Dr Norman Spack, a paediatric endocrinologist at the Boston Children’s Hospital in America. He is also the guiding light of Mermaids and a friend of both Susie Green and Dr Webberley.

He wants children who identify as transgender to routinely be given hormone-blocking drugs around the onset of puberty, and then move to high doses of hormones to change their sex, after which they can consider surgery.

The Spack philosophy is that age limits are arbitrary and often cruel. ‘Why wait?’ is his mantra. He says he has put ‘about 200 children’ onto hormone blockers, and claims 100 per cent have gone on to take cross-sex hormones because ‘no one changes their mind’

But other medics, such as Dr James Barrett, a consultant psychiatrist at London’s Charing Cross gender identity clinic, warns of the dangers of starting irreversible treatment too early."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3973036/Jackie-Green-heart-controversy-children-young-nine-given-drugs-change-sex.html

There is a clip somewhere (not sure if it was the TedTalk?)of Susie Green in conversation with Dr Spack where he happily talks of deliberately restricting Jackie Green's height because she would have been 'too tall' for a woman.

Popchyk · 24/03/2019 21:17

Yep, weird that Susie Green points to her own child having extensive counselling but that Green is advocating for the removal of the requirement for having any counselling whatsoever before surgery. For children.

Why is that exactly, Susie?

Care to explain?

Needmoresleep · 24/03/2019 21:20

"Can the discussion about trans children please now become less toxic and abusive"

Flipping heck...have they forgotten mimmymum already?

Redshoeblueshoe · 24/03/2019 21:20

I know a few women who wanted to be sterilised after having children. All were told it was not an option until they were over 30

R0wantrees · 24/03/2019 21:22

The point is that Susie Green is CEO of Mermaids Charity and has used her family's experience (particularly that of her child, Jackie) to create policy & influence many children, parents and carers in the UK.

Susie Green references the personal experiences of her child whenever she has a public platform (which is frequently) and promotes the medical interventions that her child had as 'best practice'. This is contrary to UK NICE guidance NHS ethics and protocols

HerFemaleness · 24/03/2019 21:22

At 16, she undertook extensive psychological assessment from independent experts before she was cleared for, and undertook, gender reassignment surgery.

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/health/from-jack-to-jackie-why-i-had-sex-change-at-16-1-4018711

From the article

Wheeling her into the operating theatre on her 16th birthday the nurses sang ‘Happy Birthday’ to her. “And it was my birthday,” says Jackie. “I felt like I was being born all over again.”

Hmm
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/03/2019 21:23

This would likely be with Dr Norman Spack (USA) who prescribed the 'puberty blockers' & cross sex hormones.

But presumably not when Jackie was 16 as SG states.

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R0wantrees · 24/03/2019 21:24

Also from article above:

"From then on her life became more and more difficult until eventually her parents made the decision to pay for Jackie, as she was known by that time, to have £28,000 of treatment and complete gender reassignment surgery. She was the youngest patient in the world to go through the procedure. "

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/03/2019 21:25

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/health/from-jack-to-jackie-why-i-had-sex-change-at-16-1-4018711

Archived here just in case:
archive.li/2LDlp

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EmpressLesbianInChair · 24/03/2019 21:29

Screenshots of the tweets.

Another Mermaid statement:  about Good Morning Britain and Caroline Farrow
Another Mermaid statement:  about Good Morning Britain and Caroline Farrow
R0wantrees · 24/03/2019 21:29

But presumably not when Jackie was 16 as SG states

I think (?) Ive read an interview in which Susie Green says it was Dr Spack who referred to the Thai surgeon.

will see if I can remember where.
please dont quote me!

BixBeiderbecke · 24/03/2019 21:30

Didn’t someone say Jackie is quietly getting on with their life somewhere abroad? I feel like J is now being wheeled out to defend Susie. If so, anotherpretty horrible thing to do to your child.

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