Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another Mermaid statement: about Good Morning Britain and Caroline Farrow

262 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/03/2019 21:03

Apparently Farrow will be on GMB tomorrow.

There are some interesting bits in this statement:

Jackie is, of course, deeply upset by the reference to her as being mutilated, castrated and sterilised.

Jackie is also distressed at the assertion that this was something that was somehow done ‘to her’. The only people deliberately doing anything 'to her' are the online trolls using the most abusive language about her. She would like the online abuse to stop.

At 16, she undertook extensive psychological assessment from independent experts before she was cleared for, and undertook, gender reassignment surgery. Her competency and full knowledge of all the implications was clear.

At 25 she still considers that surgery, for her, was lifesaving, and is distressed at the implication that she was not capable and mature enough to make this decision.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
RedToothBrush · 26/03/2019 16:10

I've had a csection on psychological grounds for extreme fear of birth and HCP because of a lack of trust in them, but they will only term in NHS terminology as 'being on request'. There is no classification for mental grounds.

In my case I had to demonstrate a psychological need which involved several sessions being assessed plus talk of getting social services involved (I was put as high risk and watched accordingly). I had to demonstrate I fully understood the risks and what was involved.

As it stands this is a care pathway that is recommended by NICE DOES have a body of evidence which suggests that in certain circumstances it is beneficial and lower risk than a natural birth and has a cost to the NICE which isn't prohibitive (and may well be less than the alternative).

My case was unusual in that I didn't have too much hoop jumping to do compared with that many others have.

You have women in their late 30s with PTSD from a previous birth unable to get adequate mental health support AND are being refused a CS, not because of health reasons but because Trusts are deeming it too expensive. Yet these women are being completely infantilised or cast as simply demanding or weak.

The double standards are incredible.

As it goes I think it's an area where there needs to be a case by case assessment and much more mental health support across the board, particularly post birth but also in prenatal setting to tackle this. But a lot of the problems stem from shocking unfunding, respect for proper consent and poor care through the NHS which ends up in a building up of anxiety which for a variety of reasons tends to manifest most in maternity. I personally think that C sections like mine are now being pitched as a magic solution to a very deep and complex problem which might not be the best approach for everyone.

The problem I have most is with this idea of one size fits all medicine with no nuance and no exploration of what's causing the mental health issue.

In my case they made the point strenuously that focusing on getting the CS was fundamentally flawed. Focusing on that, neglected whether I would be able to cope after my baby was born. And that I needed to think about this and develop or consider coping strategies and support.

My age and particularly small size and my physical health were certainly taken into consideration. As was only wanting one child. My situation would be very different to that of a 18 year old, wanting 3 or 4 children and being an average size with a more complex medical history.

CS in these circumstances are still controversial and are regularly framed as simply being a 'too posh to push' thing with no discussion to the medical background and evidence for there being a mental health issue that needs to be addressed regardless of whether you think that should be accompanied by a CS or a natural birth.

I get very frustrated by it all. There is absolutely no consistency. It comes back to the same thing about how womens health and medicine is regarded as fair game for ideological encroachment and comes second to men's health. Mental health is one of those things which is badly neglected or deliberately framed as unimportant in some way.

The strands of the same forces are definitely within the way trans medicine is carried out but they act in a fundamentally different way.

But many of the roots of problems are very similar indeed - particularly for women.

RedToothBrush · 26/03/2019 16:22

Oh and should add that the best approach to reduce maternal requests is adequate psychological support particularly for women who ask for one. It often ends up with women deciding themselves not to go through with a CS because they feel more in control, more respected and more listened to. A request for a CS should be regarded as a red flag, simply because of the common factors that tend to lead to women asking for one. These are more vulnerable women, often with a history of mental problems or a history of sexual abuse or rape amongst other reasons which is higher than in the general population.

Odd eh?

VeryLittleOwl · 26/03/2019 19:05

Hmm, I suspect we won't know the answer to this for some time, but the discussion a couple of pages back about neutering animals made me wonder if anyone's looking at the effect of puberty blockers on growth plates in children? In dogs, research is starting to indicate that if spaying/neutering is performed before the growth plates close (around 2 years of age), it leads to an increased chance of joint problems in later life. Growth plates in humans close between 12-16 for girls and 14-19 for boys - what's the effect going to be of giving children puberty blockers when it's the onset of puberty which sends the signal to the body to start closing them?

R0wantrees · 26/03/2019 19:45

RE the pschycological assessment prior to surgery, this interview with Susie Green seems to confirm the possibility it came from Dr Norman Spack & his organisation in US

October 2018 Daily Mail:
'My child wouldn’t be here today if she hadn’t gone from Jack to Jackie': Defiant mum whose harrowing story inspired Anna Friel's transgender drama Butterfly praises show - which critics say is just crude propaganda'

(extract)
‘So this is when I found Dr Spack in America, who was prepared to prescribe totally reversible hormone blocking medication for her, just to pause the onset of puberty. But although it transformed her life, she was still enduring terrible hostility at school.’

At her wits’ end, Susie consulted an educational welfare officer and, aged 14, Jackie left school and continued her education three days a week at a special unit for children with long-term health issues.

Meanwhile, Dr Spack prescribed oestrogen, which promoted breast development and helped to stop Jackie growing too tall. (Today she is a little over 6ft.)

‘Her school life in the specialist unit was much less turbulent,’ recalls Susie ‘but she still hated her body.’

So, in a move that many would find extreme, just before Jackie turned 16, Susie consulted plastic surgeon Dr Suporn in Thailand. ‘I asked him when my daughter would be able to have gender reassignment surgery. I expected him to say 18, but to my delight he said she could have it at 16.’

So, supported by psychological reports and a referral letter from Dr Spack, Jackie was admitted for surgery that transformed her life. (continues)

www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/pregnancy-parenting/my-child-wouldn%E2%80%99t-be-here-today-if-she-hadn%E2%80%99t-gone-from-jack-to-jackie-defiant-mum-whose-harrowing-story-inspired-anna-friels-transgender-drama-butterfly-praises-show-which-critics-say-is-just-crude-propaganda/ar-BBOp5c5

EweSurname · 26/03/2019 20:58

What is this if not grooming? Why the fuck three year olds need to know about cross sex hormones?

mobile.twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1110638759232573440

truthisarevolutionaryact · 26/03/2019 21:05

Good grief. Yes - that is grooming and completely age inappropriate. There's a name for this Angry

SirVixofVixHall · 26/03/2019 21:24

VeryLittleOwl i have wondered that too, i read up on that when thinking about when to spay my dog. (Castrati for instance often grew taller than average, their shape was different to other men, so bone growth was affected, as it is in dogs) .

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 26/03/2019 21:24

Oh god that is seriously disturbing. 3 year olds? What the actual fuck.

BarbieJellyBabyBrain · 26/03/2019 22:51

Just watched that Queer Kids Stuff YT video.

What. The. Actual. Fuck?

BarbieJellyBabyBrain · 26/03/2019 22:54

The juxtaposition of the 'child friendly' setting, cutesy Teddy bear and music/credits, against the technical and totally inappropriate language that no 3 year old could possibly understand, nor has any need to.

It's grooming. It really is.

BeUpStanding · 26/03/2019 23:15

RTB Thank you for sharing your experience about CS. You make an extremely valid point, and the comparison with 'transgender' NHS pathways is really stark. This aspect of unfairness and inconsistency in treatment isn't something I hadn't been aware of before.

Have some Flowers, or Gin if you prefer Smile

Nightwitch · 26/03/2019 23:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page