Another Mermaid statement: about Good Morning Britain and Caroline Farrow

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Apparently Farrow will be on GMB tomorrow.

There are some interesting bits in this statement:

Jackie is, of course, deeply upset by the reference to her as being mutilated, castrated and sterilised.

Jackie is also distressed at the assertion that this was something that was somehow done ‘to her’. The only people deliberately doing anything 'to her' are the online trolls using the most abusive language about her. She would like the online abuse to stop.

At 16, she undertook extensive psychological assessment from independent experts before she was cleared for, and undertook, gender reassignment surgery. Her competency and full knowledge of all the implications was clear.

At 25 she still considers that surgery, for her, was lifesaving, and is distressed at the implication that she was not capable and mature enough to make this decision.

I’m not watching, but from what I have seen of PM’s “interviews”, he just rants and never lets a guest get a word in.

In Susie Green's Ted Talk she describes how her child at 6 years old asked to have the operation to make her into a girl. Susie Green describes telling her child that they had to wait until older.

In this exchange a parent confirms the fact that there is an operation which will change a boy into a girl.

The 6 yr old child has then been told that this thing (which they may want more than anything) can only happen in 10 years.

The potential consequences of this for some children within some family dynamics should be pretty obvious to most.

It's funny how my husband managed to take care of a real baby (not just a doll) push a pram, change nappies, bath and dress the baby, and what's more, enjoy it, without anyone suggesting that he was really a woman in a mans's body.

I have a 4 year old atm.

I can see why he likes certain things. Often because they are things we like and we have encouraged. He lives them but there's definitely a sense of parent pleasing too.

Being emersed in the development of a 4 year old first hand, I guess I'm a lot more immune to historical rewriting of someone trying to justify their own mistakes.

It's blindingly obvious.

And yes as someone said upthread, Susie's distress at being challenged over it is completely bloody irrelevant. It's not about her and never was. It was about her kid. And it's particularly relevant now as she's trying to use other people's kids to justify her own actions.

She managed to explain why the surgery involves castration.

She managed to explain the problem with euphemistic language.

Everybody got another chance to read the tweets.

Nobody is saying that what she tweeted is not true, just that she's mean for saying it.

So as hostile as that interview was, lots more people will now know what Susie Green has done.

Well done Caro

That was a very uncomfortable interview to watch well done Caro you did your best under awful pressure

But you could see from about the age of three it wasn’t just the toys she played with it was as much as the way she played with them. “She didn’t really have many dolls, but what cuddly toys she had she would nurture and treat like babies, not at all like a boy.

We can't have little boys growing up to be nurturing and kind, can we? And of course, little boys play with toys in a completely different way to little girls, there's no overlap whatsoever.

I don't know the full details details but didn't Piers Morgan have an issue with fathers carrying their babies in papooses & suggested that this in some way represented a challenge to a man's 'masculinity'?

inews.co.uk/culture/several-dads-respond-after-piers-morgan-mocks-men-who-carry-their-babies-in-papooses/

Both atitudes come from a similar basis.
(sex-based stereotypes)

Just caught the end of that interview.
Susannah Reid didn't come across well at all. (Neither did Piers).
So rude to constantly interrupt and talk over a guest.

Piers involved in twitter spat over papooses

mobile.twitter.com/piersmorgan/status/1109095719741345793

I've said it before about the parent activists.

Look at where the 'i' is in the conversation. Its always about the parents not the child.

Helen Islan is exactly the same.

Caro is on TalkRadio about 9.25am this morning too, with Julia Hartley-Brewer

Yes, I think the weapomising of suicide is one of the most distasteful things about this whole movement. And all the TRAs, even the high profile ones do it.

The weaponisation of threatened and / or alleged suicides in order to secure funding for dubious charities is something I am very familiar with.

It is standard practice for dangerous quack therapists promoting conspiracy theories relating to satanic ritual abuse, MPD/DID, Illuminati mind control, etc. to claim that vulnerable survivors of ritual abuse will attempt / commit suicide unless their services receive funding.

Camila Batmanghelidjh made similar claims when Kids Company came under the spotlight for creative accounting, promoting bonkers new age therapies and for appropriating revenue streams that were meant to help the most vulnerable children and instead squandering them on an array of inappropriate luxuries for a selected special minority of and adults.

The modus operandi of Batmanghelidjh and various SRA promoting charities and clinics was / is to abuse vulnerable people as mascots and tokens by parading them around as “evidence” that what they are doing is virtuous and not abusive. This abuse of vulnerable people, in effect using them as a shield with which to deflect sceptical, rational criticism of their activities is horrifying and I see this mirrored in the use of Jackie by Susie Green.

I watched the BBC documentary Jackie Green Beauty Queen and I feel horrified that the depiction of womanhood that Susie Green and the BBC is promoting via Jackie is a freakin beauty pageant.

Because nothing says “I do not have a narcissistic / pushy mother” as much as the bizarre, hyperreal world of beauty pageants.

If anyone wants to learn more about the issue of the abuse of vulnerable people as deflector shields by dodgy charities and campaigning groups I would highly recommend this account, which depicts the opening of a horribly deep and complex rabbit hole that leads to many others, worthy of research by anyone interested in protecting vulnerable children and adults from abusive quacks and charlatans

hoaxteadresearch.wordpress.com/2018/01/28/sra-survivors-on-parade-fact-versus-fantasy-with-wellbeing-scotland-chief-exec/

"Sexual harassment of women and girls in public places inquiry
Inquiry status: open
Report published 23 October 2018, awaiting Government response.

Summary
Sexual harassment pervades the lives of women and girls and is deeply ingrained in our culture. This report, which follows the Committee’s reports on schools and workplaces, focuses on sexual harassment in public places: on public transport, in bars and clubs, in online spaces and at university, in parks and on the street; it is a routine and sometimes relentless experience for women and girls, many of whom first experience it at a young age.

(extract from full report)
"In line with findings from the British Social Attitudes Survey, overall belief in traditional gender norms is lessening, however young people show some concerning trends in relation to traditional gender norms.

There is a concerning finding that young people (18–24) tend to see more pressure on women to conform with feminine norms than older people. For example 73% say society tells us it is important for women to maintain the home, compared with a national average of 59%.

However, they are no different from others in their agreement with most masculine norms and are less likely (19%) than the overall average (27%) to think that men need sex more than women.
The social pressure on women to look physically attractive in public is most acutely felt by young women aged 18–24 at 87% (male average is 64%). Nevertheless this group is far less likely than older women (5% vs 18–47%) to find wolf-whistling acceptable.

18–24 year olds are most likely (20% vs national average of 14%) to think that men deserve to know where a girlfriend is. This presents as a measure of male entitlement which we know is generally strongly related to men’s perpetration as well as specifically to acceptability of sexual harassment in this survey." (continues)

www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/women-and-equalities-committee/inquiries/parliament-2017/sexual-harassment-public-places-17-19/

Caro well done. Susannah Reid came across as thick.
I didn't realise that about the bowel, that alone will peak more viewers.

Piers talking about respect on twitter but he loves to stir the pot himself.

I loved it when Caroline was asked about religion that she responded by talking about science

I watched the BBC documentary Jackie Green Beauty Queen and I feel horrified that the depiction of womanhood that Susie Green and the BBC is promoting via Jackie is a freakin beauty pageant.

Because nothing says “I do not have a narcissistic / pushy mother” as much as the bizarre, hyperreal world of beauty pageants.

And nothing says you must be a girl, because you enter a competition judging your physical appearance.

Or rather you must enter a competition judging your physical appearance, in order to prove it.

Susie Green is incapable of any kind of narrative that doesn't reflect her own ingrained sexism. Because she doesn't realise it is sexism.

What was the bowel thing? Sorry if already mentioned

I know a few women who wanted to be sterilised after having children. All were told it was not an option until they were over 30

I am still being refused years after hitting 30. AND when my doctors freely admit how much of a disaster it would be for me to get pregnant again due to health issues, especially as I am on a large amount of strong painkillers. I couldn't manage emotionally or physically. I know this, they agree. But I still am told no over and over, and do not have the 3k ish to go private.

I watched the BBC documentary Jackie Green Beauty Queen and I feel horrified that the depiction of womanhood that Susie Green and the BBC is promoting via Jackie is a freakin beauty pageant.

It is also worth listening to Jackie's words in the documentary.
She is 18 years old at this point.
She is interviewed prior to having plastic surgery to implant prosthetic breasts.
She articulates how determined she is to get what she 'wants'

I also watched the BBC3 documentary and it struck me that Jackie was very goal orientated in the same way other young people might be about pursuing a specific career e.g. making it as a doctor, lawyer, actor etc...

I find this uncomfortable because being female/male is not a goal that can ultimately be fulfilled by someone of the opposite sex so it's setting people up to fail from the start (even if they don't come to that realisation until much later in life).

Secondly someone of that age ideally should be channeling energies into other areas of life as a foundation for future wellbeing. I feel this way about any teenager that is overly focused on appearance and cosmetic procedures at such a young age so it's not just specific to Jackie but obviously Jackie is quite an extreme case.

I also watched the BBC3 documentary and it struck me that Jackie was very goal orientated in the same way other young people might be about pursuing a specific career e.g. making it as a doctor, lawyer, actor etc...

It was notable too that Jackie was provided with considerable coaching from the 'experts' in the world of beauty pageantry.

One presumes that if given this level of coaching all of the other young women who wished to suceed in the competition would have had more success.

Why were none of the other young women accorded such 'priviledges'?

Mermaids has got to be shut down. Children must be supported through puberty to mature and accept their bodies, an age limit of 25 should be set for sex reassignment surgery, and only then after lengthy counselling.

happydappy2
Couldn’t agree with you more.

From earlier in the thread

If a 4 yr old was so unhappy with their body that they tried to kill themselves I would be investigating whether they had been sexually abused.

I would also play close attention to an 18mo playing with a bra. I'd not be the slightest bit bothered if they were wearing it on their head or trying to eat it, but if they were mimicking adult behaviour that appeared sexualised, I would be concerned.

I wish Suzy had been able to let her child be a child.