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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Another Mermaid statement: about Good Morning Britain and Caroline Farrow

262 replies

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/03/2019 21:03

Apparently Farrow will be on GMB tomorrow.

There are some interesting bits in this statement:

Jackie is, of course, deeply upset by the reference to her as being mutilated, castrated and sterilised.

Jackie is also distressed at the assertion that this was something that was somehow done ‘to her’. The only people deliberately doing anything 'to her' are the online trolls using the most abusive language about her. She would like the online abuse to stop.

At 16, she undertook extensive psychological assessment from independent experts before she was cleared for, and undertook, gender reassignment surgery. Her competency and full knowledge of all the implications was clear.

At 25 she still considers that surgery, for her, was lifesaving, and is distressed at the implication that she was not capable and mature enough to make this decision.

OP posts:
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R0wantrees · 24/03/2019 22:21

2105 Interview with Susie Green for Day Nurseries

(extract)
“I first realised Jackie was different when she was 18 months old,” says her mum Susie Green.

"Although she was my first child, I had lots of nephews and nieces and Jackie just didn’t seem to behave like them.

“She’d go into my wardrobe, put on dresses and she even put my bra on at 18 months.

“The nursery staff were telling me Jackie was different when she went there at two and a half years old.”

Cross-dressing in the dressing up box

At nursery Jackie never played with the boys, always took a female role in the games played and would treat the soft toys like babies or pretend to have tea with them.

“She couldn’t wait to get into the dressing up box. She’d come out as Snow White with a jumper on her head and the arms trailing down to make it look like she had long hair.” (continues)

www.daynurseries.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1571947/Transgender-children-How-nurseries-can-support-those-with-gender-identity-issues

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 24/03/2019 22:23

The dehumanisation of you Caroline, referring to you as ‘the tweeter’ is completely out of order.

Since we know you’re watching us Susie, the majority of people agree with Caroline, including, I’m repeating this again and again, those whose job it is to safeguard children and decide at what age they can have these types of treatments, hence it is illegal here and now in the country you took your child to.

OldCrone · 24/03/2019 22:23

That Yorkshire Post article.

She was born 18 years ago with all the physical characteristics of a boy and her parents named her Jack, but from being a toddler she acted like a girl. She always wanted to wear girls’ clothes and play with girls’ toys.

How does a boy toddler 'act like a girl'? What are 'girls' toys'? Is it the 19th century?

From then on her life became more and more difficult until eventually her parents made the decision to pay for Jackie, as she was known by that time, to have £28,000 of treatment and complete gender reassignment surgery.

Because of course, the solution to a boy playing with 'girls' toys' is to change his body into a facsimile of a female body.

Some might query whether Susie, who was always a very open-minded mother, did enough to discourage Jack from playing with girls’ toys and wearing feminine clothes – both signs displayed from the age of three. Did she really try to intervene enough?

And of course, for the Susies of this world, who seem to be stuck in a parallel universe where it's still the 19th century, if your little boy plays with 'girls' toys' and wants to wear feminine clothes, you should try really hard to discourage them from doing so.

But you could see from about the age of three it wasn’t just the toys she played with it was as much as the way she played with them. “She didn’t really have many dolls, but what cuddly toys she had she would nurture and treat like babies, not at all like a boy.

We can't have little boys growing up to be nurturing and kind, can we? And of course, little boys play with toys in a completely different way to little girls, there's no overlap whatsoever.

And she just said to me: ‘Mummy, God made a mistake, I have a girl’s brain in a boy’s body.’

Toddlers say this sort of thing all the time, don't they?

I can't read any more of that, but from skimming it it goes stereotypes, behaving like a girl, acting feminine, playing with 'girls' toys' (again), stereotypes...

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 24/03/2019 22:25

Also from that article:

Recalling how she felt at the time, Ms Green says: “I thought she was gay or very sensitive.

“Her dad didn’t like it and wanted to make her be a boy and tell her off when she played with girls stuff.

Sad
OP posts:
JessicaWakefieldSVH · 24/03/2019 22:26

but the use of ‘child abuse’ ‘mutilation’ and ‘castration’ cannot, in any reasonable persons view, be considered to be acceptable.

Actually most reasonable people, including those that have made laws around these treatments, do consider it to be abusive. Removing the healthy genitals of a child is considered by most reasonable people to be mutilation. There really is no other word for it when it involves children.

littlbrowndog · 24/03/2019 22:28

It’s kinda a bit like my 12 year old kid said let me smoke fags or I will self harm

Or my 12 year old kid said am getting a tattoo or I will self harm

Or my 12 year old kid said let me drive a car or I will self harm

What would a parent do

EweSurname · 24/03/2019 22:29

If that happened as Susie Green says, that's a shit nursery.

I work in early years and we are always telling parents that children are free to wear/play with what they want and if anything, reassuring them.

I cannot imagine in what world childcare professionals would tell a parent that there was something different about a child because of what they played with/wore, if only because so many of them dress up/play with toys usually associated with the other sex! It's precisely the regressive shit we try to counter.

R0wantrees · 24/03/2019 22:29

Its worth watching the documentary about Jackie Green wanting to win beauty pageants. It was filmed when Jackie was 18 (I think)

In it Susie Green describes the horror /embarassment /shame (?) she felt when her young son went into shops, headed for the sections with girls clothes and obviously enjoyed the clothes there. Susie Green describes being concerned about what people 'must' be thinking.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkWv9cbda4c

boatyardblues · 24/03/2019 22:34

“She’d go into my wardrobe, put on dresses and she even put my bra on at 18 months.

This doesn’t ring true to me. At 13, it took me a fair bit of practice to get a bra on. Unless it was the draping over the child’s head or using it as a teddy bear sling or something you’d normally see in dress up or imaginary play, this sounds totally implausible.

pombear · 24/03/2019 22:37

Removing female labia, clitoris, etc. Mutilation. No dispute.

Removing testicles, flaying penile skin, inverting penile flesh into a peritoneal cavity at the age of (exactly to the day) 16 - yay, you're a woman, happy birthday. How dare anyone label it anything else. (PS, I identify as a reasonable person so do I get to say it's acceptable to use the word castration for the medical procedure that is...castration?
Why is that word so 'loaded' for trans rights activists, surely it just is what it is. Remove testicles = castration. Why aren't we meant to say what it is?)

Jessica yes, that's exactly what the statement was trying to do in terms of dehumanising. Just not very well, given that it was so obvious.

boatyardblues · 24/03/2019 22:39

In it Susie Green describes the horror /embarassment /shame (?) she felt when her young son went into shops, headed for the sections with girls clothes and obviously enjoyed the clothes there. Susie Green describes being concerned about what people 'must' be thinking.

We once had to return to Mothercare to hand in some sparkly pink shoes that toddler DS1 had snuck into his pushchair when we weren’t looking. a) I’m glad we weren’t done for shoplifting and b) our response was not to think he was a girl in a boy’s body. Magpie maybe, but really just a boy who likes sparkly stuff...

LizzieSiddal · 24/03/2019 22:41

“Our CEO Susie Green is used to online criticism. Susie is however disappointed that the tweeter, a mother, can casually accuse other mothers of 'child abuse' of their children”

I don’t think Caroline accused Suzy “casually”. She stated it after a lot of consideration of the facts.

Also the statements says Carro deleted the Tweets. Caro has stated many times that all her Tweets are deleted, automatically after two weeks.

Very interesting that the statement has changed since publishing, I hope Caro is able to reference this in the interview. Mermaids were trying to lie and spin on an extremely important fact.

StephsCaddy · 24/03/2019 22:42

I can’t think of any other area of medicine where surgeons are expected to use cutsie pie language.

If you have breast cancer does the surgeon start using phrases like top surgery? Or do they say mastectomy?

R0wantrees · 24/03/2019 22:47

I don’t think Caroline accused Suzy “casually”. She stated it after a lot of consideration of the facts.

I think a number of people especially women were tweeting these statements or very similar which repeat the observations made by Posie Parker. PP was reported by Susie Green, interviewed under caution & has remained under investigation.

I don't know if it was at this particular time but there was also a # standing with PP

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 24/03/2019 22:49

Susie is however disappointed that the tweeter, a mother, can casually accuse other mothers of 'child abuse' of their children”

Nothing casual about it. What’s disappointing, is how casually Susie talks about giving children hormones and life changing surgery, when it is illegal to do so in their own country. This is not a casual situation, it’s very serious, particularly when it’s about the head of a children’s charity.

BinaryStar · 24/03/2019 22:51

“but the use of ‘child abuse’ ‘mutilation’ and ‘castration’ cannot, in any reasonable persons view, be considered to be acceptable.“

I think Ms Green needs to spend less time on a work bubble and more time on the rhetorical Clapham Omnibus if she believes no right thinking person has those views.

pombear · 24/03/2019 22:52

StephsCaddy (slightly disturbed by, but also loving your name!)

Yes, I understand from my medical friends that colorectal stoma surgery wording is now gold lame bag acquisition, lung surgery is breathing bits adjustment', heart transplant is love hub surgery and brain surgery is thinking tinkering

RedToothBrush · 24/03/2019 22:54

At 16, she undertook extensive psychological assessment from independent experts before she was cleared for, and undertook, gender reassignment surgery.

Ah so 'extensive' it happened between midnight on the day of the op and when they went to the operating theatre.

That kind of extensive?

Good stuff at least we know what Susie thinks counts as extensive and not pressured and potentially under duress. I mean by the time you've sold up, got the money and arrive in Thailand for the 'extensive' psychological assessment.

Cos of course by the time they'd got there the poor kid would feel completely free and able to backtrack.

Either Susie Green seems to have her timeline all mixed and a piss poor memory or her version of extensive psychological assessment is rather warped.

Either way it all seems to contridict what she herself has said and there's a huge cloud of whether proper scrutiny is being done that just keeps following Susie around like a bad smell. Unlucky that.

frazzled1 · 24/03/2019 22:56

The daughter is Jackie Green, now a young woman of 25.

No Mermaids. Jackie Green is now a young transwoman.

No operation on earth, no lifetime of cross sex hormones, no carefully applied makeup, no item of clothing can alter your DNA, your chromosomes.

Humans cannot change sex.

Katvonmythicbiowoman · 24/03/2019 23:02

Okay.

I don't believe an 18 month old baby tried on a bra. I just don't.
I also don't think a 4 year old tried to kill themselves over being misgendered (from that nursery article). I just don't.

I've worked with children for over 25 years and this sounds like utter bullshit

Another Mermaid statement:  about Good Morning Britain and Caroline Farrow
Katvonmythicbiowoman · 24/03/2019 23:03

Don't think this attached

Another Mermaid statement:  about Good Morning Britain and Caroline Farrow
R0wantrees · 24/03/2019 23:06

At 16, she undertook extensive psychological assessment from independent experts before she was cleared for, and undertook, gender reassignment surgery.

I think its a bad sentence.

At 16 she had genital surgery.

Prior to this she needed to be cleared for the procedure.
This involved psychological assessments which were completed independently by experts.

Katvonmythicbiowoman · 24/03/2019 23:07

But hey, you evil bunch of witch bitch te*fs who deserve to be throat punched and die in a fire. Mermaids have done a lovely rainbow heart to show how lovely lovely they are. The taking people to court, the contacting police, all that stuff was your own fault. Stop being so toxic. Stop all your abuse.

Another Mermaid statement:  about Good Morning Britain and Caroline Farrow
boatyardblues · 24/03/2019 23:09

brain surgery is thinking tinkering

😂

StephsCaddy · 24/03/2019 23:10

If a 4 yr old was so unhappy with their body that they tried to kill themselves I would be investigating whether they had been sexually abused.