Do you honestly still feel part of the left?

[JoanWilliams75]

Don't get me wrong - I don't consider myself on the right. But, wow, this gender identity movement has really opened my eyes to the dogmatism and close mindedness of the left. The left has grown almost conspiratorial in it's critique of capitalism and sees the worst in everybody. I've always been critical of extreme identity politics, but I was pretty 'woke' until about a year or so ago.

Hearing your political allies repeating TWAW or else has really made me question what else is a lie. I realise this gender identity movement is not a bizarre blind spot of the left (I keep seeing Glinner tweet 'why are progressives supporting this?!') but reflects a much broader failure of the left itself. I've found myself much more willing to engage with other perspectives and I am much better for it. I can't believe how close minded I used to be.

I don't know what left and right are supposed to mean anymore. I guess I'd consider myself "left" libertarian. Though I support basic income, free speech, environmentalism and generally live and let live.

Just some thoughts. Anyone else?

I feel silly for opening this with "I am not on the right".

It's trendy to be left wing. You can't be stuffy, fuddy-duddy, conservative right wing. You'd never be able to hold your head up again . We right wingers support basic income, the environment, and free speech as well. But we're not trendy and we keep our heads down.

No.

I despise a lot of them now.

So judgemental and closed minded.

I could have written your post OP. The gender identity issue has opened my eyes and now I see the problems of (some of) the left more broadly. That said, I won't be voting Tory any time soon. I don't know who to vote for any more.

I feel politically homeless now. This identity politics is the biggest load of shite in a long time. Made all the worse by social media.

I am economically as left as they come, and I trust my left politics because they come from what I know to be true from observation in my life and of the lives of others. I think I have a sound analysis. I am open to discussing my views with others about it.

However, I do not feel a part of 'the left' as a collective identity now.

My leftism is radical (actually radical, not "woke") and engaged with material reality, it is not some purity contest.

I think that a lot of the left has lost itself in identity politics, purity, and morality, and stopped thinking in terms of the collective good and material equality of all. It has stopped caring about the poor, oppressed, and disenfranchised in favour of fighting for people's individiual rights to have their feelings validated.

This, in my opinion, is because it has been populated by actual privileged people - in terms of wealth and status. They have no real interest in fighting for material equality.

It feels sad to now not feel a part of leftist movements for change. But I'll keep working and striving for actual social justice my whole life. There are some leftist groups who are GC and I will get more involved with them. I'll also seek lefty GC women to organise with. All is not lost.

I don't believe that removing the rights of women and children is left wing so I feel like I am in that respect and they aren't.

Some have been misled, some were misogynistic anyway but there is no way that it is a left wing belief going by my own understanding when it focuses on the requirements of mostly white, middle aged privileged, heterosexual men.

No I don’t. I consider myself part of the old left - the kind that says work hard, and if you can’t, we will catch you if you fall. The kind that says we should work together to improve things for everyone. I dont recognise the current left. It’s authoritarian, and frankly I think it’s extremely dangerous.

I’m not sure where I am at the moment. I still believe in a safety net, in collective action. But I can now really see the point of the right’s insistence on less government control and more individual liberty. I can see how easy it is to take rights away - look at the shooting in NZ. A terrible event, being used exactly as the gunman intended, to seed division and accelerate conflict between left and right. NZ law is threatening 10-14 years in jail for watching the footage. I have no desire to watch it - but watching a video of a real event cannot be grounds for jailing someone. A man here has been arrested for tweeting support. Again, what a reprehensible thing to do - but he should not be arrested simply for that. We cannot be restricted in what we think, say and believe like this. We cannot be compelled to speak against our beliefs. We cannot be jailed for speaking biological fact. These are quite disturbing and frightening developments.

So for me, I’ve shifted away from the left. It no longer represents me and is actively working against my interests and those of freedom and peace.

JoanWilliams75

My wife and I feel exactly the same as you, we are in a political wilderness, Labour voters who are disgused with the party.
However that doesn't stop us having left of centre views, supporting the NHS, benefits for those who need them, good education for all etc.
The left has been hijacked by fringe groups who have joined up and are pushing their own agendas. They don't care about the poor, or ordinary working people, they just care about themselves.
Their followers are usually young, "woke" - students, arty types, anarchists, eco warriors, and the populist lefty/liberal politicians who will do anything to get their vote.
Many of the fringe groups/followers, don't just attack women who speak out, they dislike older people, they are blatently ageist, using terms such as - "old white men".
They seem to be against anyone who has a sense of decency, principles.
When I read the various twitter feeds, it seems as though the majority of people speaking out against what is happening at the moment, are indeed on the "right" of the political spectrum - conservative, religious, older.
We need the people on the centre/left to start speaking out.

"NZ law is threatening 10-14 years in jail for watching the footage."

Wow!
That is like something out of the Stalin era!

This, in my opinion, is because it has been populated by actual privileged people - in terms of wealth and status. They have no real interest in fighting for material equality.

I concur.

The current iteration of the left is more bourgeois liberal and only identifies as the left.

That said, even the proper left has always had a problem with sexism and, since all women's rights are currently threatened, I'll be prioritising those until the threat is past, regardless of left/liberal/right/conservative politics.

No - after being a union member for over 40 years (and still am) I don't see the unions representing their members any more. I have a letter to send to our woman's officer, and, depending on that reply, may not be for much longer

Wow!That is like something out of the Stalin era!

Isn’t it just?

They contacted the guy who runs kiwifarms, and demanded the email addresses and IP logs of everyone who had commented on the thread about the shooter. Just commented. He told them to get knotted, and lo! A huge influx of new accounts, all saying grim racist/shooter supportive things, which were then screenshotted and used in various hatchet job articles. At no point in those articles was what the police had actually asked for mentioned - it was pitched as ‘he wouldn’t help us! He harbours criminals!’

I think we are at a turning point here. The TRA demands if allowed will create a framework where compelled speech exists, science denial is legally enshrined, reality is denied and anyone who doesn’t deny it will be punished. These test cases, against Women who misgender, are relevant to a lot more than ‘just’ misgendering. This is our basic civil freedoms at stake. Women are the canary in the coal mine but this will be used against men and men need to realise this and stand with us. This affects everyone.

No I don't feel like I fit on the left anymore but neither do I fit on the right. I feel like I've been jettisoned out of the equation.

The left has been hijacked by fringe groups who have joined up and are pushing their own agendas. They don't care about the poor, or ordinary working people, they just care about themselves.

A lot of my students are woke progressive leftie types. Most of them would run a fucking mile if they met an actual poor person.

look at the shooting in NZ. A terrible event, being used exactly as the gunman intended, to seed division and accelerate conflict between left and right. NZ law is threatening 10-14 years in jail for watching the footage. I have no desire to watch it - but watching a video of a real event cannot be grounds for jailing someone. A man here has been arrested for tweeting support. Again, what a reprehensible thing to do - but he should not be arrested simply for that. We cannot be restricted in what we think, say and believe like this.

I’m afraid NZ has been doing stuff like this a long time, this had bred the kind of anger we just saw. Look up Tame Iti. I was marching next to him once and he was arrested for NOTHING, just being on a peaceful political protest. My mum on the other side was subject to shocking racial abuse and the police stood and watched. NZ is a fucked up place.

As to left politics. I have voted left all my life, until a few years ago considered myself liberal. Now, I reject the entire concept of left & right politics. It’s an irrelevance to me and I refuse to play along with the idea we can be either. The system is corrupt to its fucking core.

No I don’t. I consider myself part of the old left - the kind that says work hard, and if you can’t, we will catch you if you fall. The kind that says we should work together to improve things for everyone. I dont recognise the current left. It’s authoritarian, and frankly I think it’s extremely dangerous.

I agree with this totally.

lo! A huge influx of new accounts, all saying grim racist/shooter supportive things, which were then screenshotted and used in various hatchet job articles.

Were the articles on The Spinoff by any chance? Morons.

I feel politically homeless now. This identity politics is the biggest load of shite in a long time. Made all the worse by social media.

I'm pretty sure this is the point of the a lot of the trans stuff.

It's really noticeable that, although the reports and legislation on trans stuff are being driven by the ruling right-wing party, the messaging on MN from eg brand new posters like the OP and a previous extremely prolific thread-starter, is strongly "it's The Left's fault".

Part of the message also being "The Left is Them, not You or Us". Whereas, as PP have said, we're pretty sure we are the left, thanks very much, and some of the "woke folk", hmm, not so much.

One thing we learned from the Cambridge Analytica US election is that if you can't persuade people to vote for you, just get them to not vote at all. Job done.

The Terrorism Suppression act was used to keep Māori inline, while white supremacists grew under their very noses.

Sorry, off on a tangent, but both the left and right have done terrible things under the falsehood they’re keeping others safe.

Thanks for this thread. Describes so much of how I feel about this. Now I actually understand why Trump won, and why so many working class people voted for him, against their material interests. Steve Bannon (Trump's former strategist and a horrible but clever man) is right: politics flows from culture.

In some ways I am actually grateful because a lot of things I have not understood before now make sense.

But it's important not to leave the Left to the ideologues and the thought police, and to continue making a case for good public services, a functioning safety net, free health care, international cooperation (on climate change and tax havens), regulation of business, stopping the asset stripping of public property and so on.

all of this has made me aware that while I have always been left wing, voted Labour, and indeed been a LP member, I was never of the left in the way many people are. It was never an integral part of my identity in the way I see with many people I've met since gender madness took over my life.

This means that it doesn't physically hurt me to see the Labour Party being sexist pricks in the way it seems to hurt some.

the result is the same though - I am politically homeless

GCAcademic, haven't students been like this for a long time, incredibly privileged but in denial?

I’ve always voted labour, always seen myself as concerned with issues of equality, diversity and tolerance.

But I have often departed from left wing friends on certain issues. I have two close friends that I cannot even raise this with, as I think they will be on board with the TRA ideology, and I can’t bear to deal with it. I have also been uncomfortable with some of the GC rhetoric. The most critical are sometimes from religious or ideological perspectives that view gay people as problematic too. I feel uneasy with some of the alliances though relieved at the same time at any public opposition to the craziness.

The trans issue has though totally disenfranchised me. I cannot see why those on the left do not have the guts to say this is ridiculous. I cannot believe there is not one labour MP who is concerned about this, and I detest the cowardice.

YY, Stalin famously a left-wing authoritarian, after all.

You can't rush to left or to right as a way of avoiding facism: it's the extreme in both directions.

However you can be more moderate and right-wing, and you can be more moderate and left-wing.