Do you honestly still feel part of the left?

[JoanWilliams75]

Don't get me wrong - I don't consider myself on the right. But, wow, this gender identity movement has really opened my eyes to the dogmatism and close mindedness of the left. The left has grown almost conspiratorial in it's critique of capitalism and sees the worst in everybody. I've always been critical of extreme identity politics, but I was pretty 'woke' until about a year or so ago.

Hearing your political allies repeating TWAW or else has really made me question what else is a lie. I realise this gender identity movement is not a bizarre blind spot of the left (I keep seeing Glinner tweet 'why are progressives supporting this?!') but reflects a much broader failure of the left itself. I've found myself much more willing to engage with other perspectives and I am much better for it. I can't believe how close minded I used to be.

I don't know what left and right are supposed to mean anymore. I guess I'd consider myself "left" libertarian. Though I support basic income, free speech, environmentalism and generally live and let live.

Just some thoughts. Anyone else?

The right wing thinks that women are private property. The left wing thinks that women are public property.

(Apologies. I can't remember who originally said this. I read it on here)

What do you mean by ‘the left’?

I would certainly suggest that anyone GC living in a safe seat of any shade consider channelling stickerwoman when they go into the polling booth.

People in a marginal might be best off doing some homework (inc contacting preferred candidates directly regarding their definition of ‘woman’) but if your vote is unlikely to make any difference to the outcome, deffo get creative!

I have heard that, historically, if you write something like ‘you’re all shit but X party are slightly less shit’ then the agent from X party can argue that it’s a vote for them (final decision rests with the Returning Officer, who is employed as an independent adjudicator).

An individual spoiled ballot thus might get even more attention if you name your preferred party, whilst also not following the ‘just an x in the box and nothing else’ rules.

This way of dealing with spoiled/blank ballots allows for things like ballots with ticks instead of crosses to be considered/counted with consent of the candidates & returning officer, and is generally a good thing, both for common sense prevailing and to ensure that people with learning or language difficulties or first time voters don’t get needlessly excluded from democratic engagement.

It also makes for a system ripe for creative interpretation!

I’ve attended both local and GE counts (and I absolutely love count night).
The majority of uncounted ballots are blank, which is a wasted opportunity to tell people why you aren’t voting, imo.
There are usually a handful of ‘fuck off the lot of youse’ type responses, but rarely anything with specific political statements.

I suspect it could be used as a very affective form of protest - the candidates will certainly not forget it and will undoubtedly relay the message to others in their party.

Same as so many people here. Labour voter for 40 years and now politically homeless. Not only politically homeless but estranged from quite a few people who don't see what's happened to Labour and are sticking in there grimly, telling me how wonderful Corbyn is and to go with the manifesto pledges and not worry about the detail. Don't worry about the Stalinist ideology/ tactics, don't worry about the lack of leadership, just concentrate on the promises in the manifesto... Yeah, like I was never mis-sold anything before.

What with Brexit, the trans shit and Labour going back to the politics of the 1980s I think my mental health is probably at risk. I now see very clearly how Hitler and other extremist leaders rose and took over: people fragmented and confused, friendships and alliances broken, people nervous of saying anything because it turns out half the neighbours are Breitbart fascists/ Brexiteers / Transallies. The only good to come out of it is that GC lefties are starting to find each other and form little groups and I hope out of these a new more centre-left party that supports feminism will rise. Sort of what I wanted from the Women's Equality party —and look what happened there.

another here who is most definitely still very left wing (i keep checking on the political compass thingy and i never move a dot)

the trans rights agenda has exposed two things to me. 1) that misogyny runs so incredibly deep, is woven into the fabric of our society and many people just don't see it. men don't have to ever see it and younger women are rewarded by being granted higher social capital than older women. older women are smeared to make sure younger women don't want to hear them and crimes against women are reported in such a way that the true problem (male violence) is obscured. in my 20s i never understood any of this, despite already having been a victim of serious male crimes.

2. so many people don't think critically! Even people who identify as being intelligent!! I see this a lot amongst my lefty peers. They get so unstuck when there is a collision between sensitive view points and nuanced thought is required. For example they might argue passionately against beating children as punishment but not when the family in question is from another culture for fear of being racist.

As social and political divides become ever more entrenched & extreme, I think many people now feel politically homeless. The old political structures are breaking down.

Too much identity politics, of which the recent trans movement is the ultimate poster boy. Can't bear 'right' & 'wrong think' - which is how much of the left has now become.

I'm another who will be spoiling my ballot paper going forwards. I've heard there is a way to spoil your paper which is actually recorded, rather than simply dismissed. Does anyone know what this is and how it works?

*I’ve attended both local and GE counts (and I absolutely love count night).
The majority of uncounted ballots are blank, which is a wasted opportunity to tell people why you aren’t voting, imo.
There are usually a handful of ‘fuck off the lot of youse’ type responses, but rarely anything with specific political statements.
*

What is the best way to have your voice recorded when 'spoiling' your paper? I really don't want to vote for any party - but do want to record my voice.

When I was growing up the political right was authoritarian, illiberal, moralising, censorious, closed-minded and anti free-speech. This is why I was strongly drawn to the liberal left.

Now, the opposite is the case, and it is the authoritarian left which seeks to censor thought, oppose free speech, police language and impose rigid limits on what they deem to be 'acceptable' discourse.

How did we go so wrong? How did the liberal left become Stalinist?

I have been just right of centre for many years

Over the last 10 years or so ive been edging my way across the fence into left of centre

Im bloody tempted to edge back across! If i coukd figure out a way of balancing in the middle id do that

that misogyny runs so incredibly deep, is woven into the fabric of our society and many people just don't see it. men don't have to ever see it

This is true and something I am also grasping as I age. I thought that so many battles were won and am shocked to witness how they actually aren't. The safety and dignity of women and girls have been casually tossed aside with barely a backwards glance.

I am quite tempted to stick one of posie's Women - noun - adult human female stickers on my ballot...

Of course I’m left wing. Im not letting the sexist anti women, pro men rights part of the “left” claim to be more progressive than I am.

They can go join their bros on the right.

I agree with my conservative parents that trans women are male, not female, because it is obvious common sense. And we agree on other common sense issues like “violent extremists of all stripes are bad”.

But I disagree with them on nearly every other issue. All issues taken together I am extremely far politically from them. If the question is do I vote repub or democrat (I’m American) then obviously the latter.

I am quite tempted to stick one of posie's Women - noun - adult human female stickers on my ballot...

Thank you for this marvellous idea

Of course I’m left wing. Im not letting the sexist anti women, pro men rights part of the “left” claim to be more progressive than I am.

They can go join their bros on the right.

This. Of course I still feel part of the left, I'm a disabled woman. Just because there are idiots on the left doesn't mean they get to push people like me out

The problem with ballot spoiling for me is that I need this government out and so do so many many people. Austerity measures have hit communities hard. I keep not being able to make rent and having to use food banks. We need a labour government for the majority of women to have access to healthcare, welfare, services, for us and our children. So, for me, I can't be principled and spoil my ballot as I wish to, when pragmatically I just really need a labour government and especially one which is promising to improve material conditions for me and for many.

I wouldn't want to spoil my ballot at the moment either as but I have been wondering how long a sticker would last in a polling booth before it was noticed and removed. Hopefully some voters might see it.

Here's how to spoil a ballot for maximum impact:

www.votenone.org.uk/protest_votes_count.html

Ensure your protest vote is clear Don't put a cross (or tick) anywhere. Don't write anything else which could identify you, or create any uncertainty or excuse. Just put a single line through all the boxes. Write NONE across the ballot paper, so that your intention is clear beyond dispute. It will then be indefensible to classify it as 'voter's intention uncertain'.

Really? I would have thought something like Adult Human Female would at least make your reasoning clear.

the trans rights agenda has exposed two things to me. 1) that misogyny runs so incredibly deep, is woven into the fabric of our society and many people just don't see it. men don't have to ever see it and younger women are rewarded by being granted higher social capital than older women. older women are smeared to make sure younger women don't want to hear them and crimes against women are reported in such a way that the true problem (male violence) is obscured. in my 20s i never understood any of this

This this this a thousand times this!

I'd say I was to the left politically but the older I got the more I've been annoyed by the sanctimonious right think and morally superior stance of The Left (despite the fact that I was one of the insufferables when I was younger ).

However I've never been party political and have only voted for actual parties a handful of times, the rest of the times I've spoiled my ballot - I can't be doing with any of them. Ultimately that's probably exactly what they want but I just can't...and now that I can see so clearly how much all of the parties don't give a fuck about women and girls I won't be changing my stance any time soon.

younger women are rewarded by being granted higher social capital than older women. older women are smeared to make sure younger women don't want to hear them and crimes against women are reported in such a way that the true problem (male violence) is obscured. in my 20s i never understood any of this

This too!!!

I was similar, I remember leaving university after my masters, thinking that feminism had won all the major battles already (in the 90s!!).

In employment, I laughed knowingly along with my male colleagues when they moaned about having to have female representation on their boards, I was their go to token female.

Then I had kids, then I became responsible for a never ending mountain of unpaid care work and I also could not reconcile paying another women shitty pay to take care of the kids I wanted to spend time with. I crucified myself to try to keep up at work, and even when I out performed my peers, was never promoted 'cause I'm a mother.

Always voted left, had standing orders for decades for left-wing parties, but I will never forgive their subjugation of women and children's rights to biological males who like to play dress up.

Do you think its a huge co-incidence that just as the far Right gains ascendance and needs an effective opposition, the Left has been co-opted, infiltrated, and turned into a parody?

Being actually left wing is like being a feminist; its a verb not a passive noun. Its been reduced to an identity that you can adopt just because you don't want people to think you are right wing.

I could have written the OP.

I have been left-wing all my life. To me, being left-wing means supporting trade unions, supporting workers' rights, collectivism, the struggle for liberation. It doesn't mean identity politics. I find the authoritarianism of the so-called left now deeply frightening. But looking back, it's always been there. Think of the numbers on the left who supported Stalin, some of them long after his crimes were exposed.

Being actually left wing is like being a feminist; its a verb not a passive noun. Its been reduced to an identity that you can adopt just because you don't want people to think you are right wing

I'd agree BadPenny.

BadPenny and hackmum, you've expressed what I want to.

There's a saying in the tech industry that security is something you do, not something you can buy.

In the same way, living by our values and fighting for progress is something we do, not a label anyone can just stick on and believe this makes all things well.

It is also the case that most of the people on the left who are strong supporters of the trans movement are also the people who are anti-semetic. They are the sort of people who follow what they feel is the right-on thing to do, and they don’t question it.

Women are trying to explain the threats to their rights. Jewish people are trying to show that the left’s obsession with Israel above any other country can be threatening to their freedom.