Do you honestly still feel part of the left?

[JoanWilliams75]

Don't get me wrong - I don't consider myself on the right. But, wow, this gender identity movement has really opened my eyes to the dogmatism and close mindedness of the left. The left has grown almost conspiratorial in it's critique of capitalism and sees the worst in everybody. I've always been critical of extreme identity politics, but I was pretty 'woke' until about a year or so ago.

Hearing your political allies repeating TWAW or else has really made me question what else is a lie. I realise this gender identity movement is not a bizarre blind spot of the left (I keep seeing Glinner tweet 'why are progressives supporting this?!') but reflects a much broader failure of the left itself. I've found myself much more willing to engage with other perspectives and I am much better for it. I can't believe how close minded I used to be.

I don't know what left and right are supposed to mean anymore. I guess I'd consider myself "left" libertarian. Though I support basic income, free speech, environmentalism and generally live and let live.

Just some thoughts. Anyone else?

What do you mean by ‘the left’?

Not right.

On the Stalin-theme, If you have Amazon Prime you can currently watch The Death of Stalin for free.

It is extremely funny, not least because General Zhukov is from Yorkshire, but it is a reminder of what thought-control really was and is like.

I watched it with my 16 year old who found it an absolute revelation.
Plus of course it is presumably very much what Orwell, our go-to author on here, was writing about in 1984.

I certainly don’t feel part of the left anymore. However we need to keep in mind that the Labour Party lost power 9 years ago and that most of what GC women are angry about is happening under a Conservative government with a Conservative Home Secretary who is rumoured to be on the right of the Conservative Party. I’m going to vote UKIP. I have attended a few UKIP events and the party seem to believe in common sense and free speech.

Only a fool would think that UKIP had the best interests of women at heart. I imagine they don't agree with self-ID, but last time I saw a manifesto of theirs (on a campaign leaflet that came through my letterbox) they were committed to decriminalising marital rape and repealing any and all anti-discrimination laws. So no more Equality Act and therefore no more protection for single sex provision.

Yes. Just placemarking because can’t read full thread yet. But. Yes. Was thinking about this this morning. I don’t have a tribe anyway. And all this stuff about protecting people against hurt feelings rather than focussing on material poverty. And climate change that. And almost anything else. Yes, I’m frustrated too.

"It is extremely funny, not least because General Zhukov is from Yorkshire, but it is a reminder of what thought-control really was and is like."

That made me LOL, because my dad did his national service at Catterick, and he was a tank driver with the now disbanded 16th/5th Lancers. The idea of General Zhukov commanding battalions of Russian T34's whilst speaking in a Yorkshire accent is hilarious.

I used to be poor and working class and active in my local community but then I saw the Light, decided to pay Farage £50 to take a walk in the rain and watch Him stand on a bus, said no leftie, ever.

Thanks for this thread OP, it's probably the most important/clarifying thread I've ever read on MN. So much chimes with how I feel as well, and it's helping to crystalise my thoughts on politics, which have been very inchoate and confused over the past few years.

I've always been a leftie, though of the green hue, rather than the traditional workers' socialism (never voted Labour). Grew more left-wing post 2010 when the government's austerity policies on things like the bedroom tax, selling off the NHS and food banks kicked in. Felt I was a trans-ally, followed pages like EF on FB , yet I also followed DGR and read Derrick Jensen for the environmental side... I couldn't understand why they were so "transphobic". Things like Michigan Women's Music Festival and Vancouver Rape Relief getting sued (c. 2014) started stirring some nuance in me. Then Owen Jones calling out "homophobia" when asked if he'd go down on a transman, after stating that lesbians be obliged to include transwomen in their dating pools peaked me. Sauce for the goose/sauce for the gander etc.

Then Cologne happened and it seismically changed the political landscape in my head. News stories coming out about the grooming gangs in Rotherham. Reading about the sudden large rise in rapes in Sweden in the Almost Nearly Perfect People, that I read as a massive Scandi-phile. Along with all the other batshittery on the left... anti-semitism, the Goldsmiths' Gulags, Sisters Uncut defending violent TRAs, Helen Steel/Maria Mac getting beaten up by the heavies. Yet staring down the barrel of the Right... Cameron's Brexit, austerity, Trump, privatisation etc.

Really struggling to see how my views fit into the wider landscape. Still working out whether I've changed, or the world has and my compass point has remained the same. Totally disenfranchised either way. Watching Jordan Peterson videos on youtube is my guilty pleasure ... not because I agree with him at all, but because it's like going outdoors in the fresh mountain air. It gives me the space to think for myself, away from the rancid totalitarian group think of the "woke" left. I feel awake rather than woke. I left FB a couple of years ago, as I couldn't bear to either stick my head over the parapet at the lack of critical thinking or sit on my hands, the only way out of my double bind was to deactivate. I think I've come to a point where I can distill my political philosophy as "neither left nor right, but small". I see socialism and capitalism as two cheeks of the same arse (after Chesterton?). I try to live my philosophy now by living simply and minimalistically, but as Jensen says in Forget Shorter Showers, personal actions are never solutions to collective problems. I can never challenge the patriarchy and the triumph of gender ideology by staying at home.

Just feels that any expression of nuance away from the orthodox left gets you labelled as far right/bigot/xxxxx-phobic.

The youth who identify as left-wing have not actually been taught and have no experience with materialist left-wing political theory or analysis.

Instead, they’ve been taught postmodernism, which is antithetical to left-wing materialist politics, and in fact originated in apologia for intellectual collaboration with fascism and reaction to leftist extremism.

They are part of conservative reaction to leftism, and they and their organisations receive a lot of money from think tanks and foundations for that very reason. In the US, tech money in particular has polluted “left” politics with, on the one hand, libertarian ideals regarding no limits on corporate monopolies, and statist ideals regarding the end of privacy and the rise of surveillance as necessary to security. Not to mention unending war as “responsibility to protect.”

Postmodernism, in applied politics, destabilises all political categories precisely because it decenters any central “truth.” Just as with gender “left” becomes what anyone says it to be. Which, given the material facts of power, means that “left” becomes what anyone with power claims it to be, even if that “left” is utterly divorced from all historic meaning and actions of the “left.”

That’s how we end up politically homeless, in a terrain where all political markers are relative and therefore ultimately meaningless, because ultimately they are dictated solely by who is in power at the moment.

I've never been a leftie in the traditional "workers' rights/ Socialism sense. I was a Blairite although always voted Conservative in Holyrood elections. If the Labour party ever finds another Blair I might vote for it again.

I gave up on Labour when they elected Corbyn as leader- nothing to do with trans issues. The Labour Party is currently led by a rather thick Communist.

Very good question OP. I still want more of a safety net than a lot on the right do, but the controlling and dogmatic side of the left has been very obvious in recent times, whereas you can generally have a conversation with those on the right, agree on virtually nothing but at least agree to differ. Interesting times.

I don't think either unfettered capitalism, or dogmatic socialism, lead to the best society. "New Labour" doesn't have a good sound to it now, but it was popular in its day. And you can't help noticing that there aren't any women who are close to leadership in Labour, while we're living with the second female Prime Minister from the Tories.

Great thread- people have summarised so much, so well for me. Reading confirms, strengths and qualifies my outlook. However, the phrase ‘Politically homeless’ - brilliantly and awfully true

I'm (still) a Labour Party member and active in my trade union. Locally, I'm absolutely fine about my LP membership, less so my union.

Locally, my constituency LP is very much 'old' Labour. We're in a mostly impoverished part of a large city, and my branch focuses very much on things that matter to people living in poverty - the impact of cuts to services, universal credit and so on. Where 'women's issues' crop up as a distinct thing it's usually with relation to cuts to childcare that disproportionately affect women in poverty, and domestic violence. Most of the branch activists are completely uninterested in identity politics - it's not being raised on the doorsteps and at street stalls so it's not a priority. I only come into contact with the authoritarian, identitarian wing of the LP online - I don't go to party conferences so I don't have to see it there. I honestly think my CLP is more representative of core Labour members than the loud, woke authoritarian types, but somehow they've been allowed to dominate in some CLPs and nationally.

My local union branch is a different matter. Several of the committee are young and very vocally transgenderist - and in true authoritarian left tradition they say that anyone disagreeing with them is a transphobic fascist (history is lost on them), and has no place in the union. People are leaving the union because of them and sometimes it takes all the effort I can muster to stay.

I think transgenderism is a parasite on the left - eating away from within until the host (i.e. the labour and trade union movement) has been destroyed. The net effect will be to destroy any credible and effective opposition that the organised left might pose to the rich and powerful. I think it's hugely dangerous and my worry is that by the time most of the proponents of transgenderism realise what damage they're doing, it'll be irreversible.

I recently was reading a left-wing Corbyn supporting online magazine or something and it was boasting how everyone around him was on the far left and wants a revolution. They were also justifying the use of violence. Needless to say, none of them were women.

I feel politics in the UK is broken, displayed by the ridiculousness that is Brexit.

I'm a long time lurker on this board, I thought I was the only one who had certain feelings regarding the nature of modern left wing politics. I'm pleased to see there are others who share my views.

“GraceMarks

Only a fool would think that UKIP had the best interests of women at heart.”

Really? I think UKIP have everyone’s interest at heart, both male and female. But if you don’t agree there is plenty of choice. What we have now, Corbyn or Lib Dem or green

When it comes to economic policies, most here are still on the left. And that's a good thing.

As someone who was never a lefty I'm sort of amused that it has taken trans issues for some of you to recognise the idiocy and intolerance of the hard left.

When it comes to economic policies, most here are still on the left. And that's a good thing

Really? How do you work that out? What economic policies are you referring to?

Income tax at more than 50%?
Re- nationalisation?
Land Value taxes instead of rates?

LassOfFyvie when you're poor and desperate, you can only hold out hope that those who claim they are there to represent you really will.

No I don't (to answer the op). Voted Labour all my life but now feel thoroughly chastened for my naivity and smuggery. Even if a miracle happened and Labour dropped self ID, I'm not sure if there would be any way back for me, not now I've seen their authoritarianism.

I'm dreading a general election. I've never not voted or spoilt my vote before and I hate the idea of it but there doesn't seem to be a single mainstream party that won't throw women and girls under a bus to get what they want. They can all go swivel.

I think the Left breaks down barriers and the Right holds onto the status quo.
Marxism tried to redistribute wealth among the social classes which was then applied to identity politics- redistribute opportunity.
It was a useful tool when applied to feminism and racism at first, it shone a light on some closed power structures that kept out women for instance.
New identity politics want to tear down sex boundaries & they have been further applied to Trans rights, it's stifling debate & free speech in the Universities and men are using it to smuggle in misogyny under the cloak of 'identity' politics.

I'm 100% left wing, an SNP supporter, and although I am disappointed in Nicola Sturgeon's comments on how trans rights don't change women's rights it is only one issue and in the grand scheme of things not nearly enough to change my vote.

I believe in free prescriptions, free higher education, baby boxes, increased financial support for carers (which the Labour party voted against), workers rights, and many other left wing policies.

The Labour party is dead in Scotland and would never vote for them.

I would rather cut my hand off than vote tory, the Lib Dems are a joke.

What is the Conservative stance on the GRA etc?

Voted Labour all my life but now feel thoroughly chastened for my naivity and smuggery. Even if a miracle happened and Labour dropped self ID, I'm not sure if there would be any way back for me, not now I've seen their authoritarianism

I voted Labour in all Westminster elections bar the last one. Labour would have to drop Corbyn and Momentum for me to even think about voting Labour again.

I'm not homeless. I will continue to vote Conservative in Holyrood elections and Lib Dem for Westminster- the latter to keep the SNP out.