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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Police interviewing Caroline Farrow under caution and threatening to arrest her for "misgendering"

999 replies

Pimmsnlemonade · 19/03/2019 00:11

twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1107787009614065664

And, as she says in the thread:

"Meanwhile a group of people have terrified and harassed my family. Doxed my children, made violent and sexual threats, signed me up to porn accounts, did the same to my husband, threatened to visit here. And tumbleweed..."

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
Ereshkigal · 20/03/2019 18:36

I bet they don't.

NicoAndTheNiners · 20/03/2019 18:36

One other thing I thought was interesting is that a woman shouldn't be sterilised unless theres a gap of at least 2 weeks between the initial appt/counselling and the operation. To allow for a period to digest information and make sure they don't change their mind.

Obviously this was done in Thailand without the same standards of informed consent but if the child was castrated on their 16th birthday they made the decision as a 15yo! Not even a 16yo, let alone 18yo!

How can alone think this was ok?

R0wantrees · 20/03/2019 18:37

I didn't realise quite how far this story had spread.

As has become slightly (?) clearer throughout the day, the tweets in question may not have been reported or be in the process of investigation for 'misgendering'

President Trump might in other circumstances describe this early reporting of a situation as 'fake news' Confused

Police interviewing Caroline Farrow under caution and threatening to arrest her for "misgendering"
NicoAndTheNiners · 20/03/2019 18:38

*castrate
/kaˈstreɪt,ˈkastreɪt/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: castrating
remove the testicles of (a male animal or man).
synonyms: neuter, geld, cut, emasculate, desex, sterilize, unman, remove the testicles of;

Maybe someone needs to pay for a billboard with the dictionary definition of castration! , 🙄

Ereshkigal · 20/03/2019 18:40

What were they doing getting involved in propaganda in schools in the first place? Is that normal?

Did this partnership with Gendered Intelligence possibly come out of the Miller Trans Inquiry? GI was tasked by the government in 2015/16 to write the guidelines for service providers and employers. Which is where this idea that they have access all areas even when very obviously male has come from.

NicoAndTheNiners · 20/03/2019 18:40

BecUse I do assume that any biological "male" who has "bottom" surgery and has a neo vagina made out of an inverted penis also has their testicles removed.

Or are WYP saying trans women have a vagina and testicles, because that's an interesting look!

R0wantrees · 20/03/2019 18:42

Obviously this was done in Thailand without the same standards of informed consent but if the child was castrated on their 16th birthday they made the decision as a 15yo! Not even a 16yo, let alone 18yo!

How can alone think this was ok?

See also with regards the medical intervention which Susie Green obtained for her child in USA which included 'puberty blockers' and cross sex hormones.

Professor Carl Heneghan (head of Oxford's Evidence-Based Medicine) was interviewed in a recent Panorama & as a consequence of his analysis concluded that 'informed consent is not possible'

BMJ EBM Spotlight paper:
'Gender-affirming hormone in children and adolescents – Evidence review'
Posted on 25th February 2019

(extract)
"Gender dysphoria occurs when a person experiences discomfort or distress because of a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity. Gender dysphoria can arise in childhood and adolescent which raises many questions about how best to handle the condition. This post sets out the current evidence for gender-affirming hormones in adolescents and children to aid decision making. (continues)

"Conclusions

There are significant problems with how the evidence for Gender-affirming cross-sex hormone has been collected and analysed that prevents definitive conclusions to be drawn. Similar to puberty blockers, the evidence is limited by small sample sizes; retrospective methods, loss of considerable numbers of patients in follow-up. The majority of studies also lack a control group (only two studies used controls). Interventions have heterogeneous treatment regimes complicating comparisons between studies. Also adherence to the interventions are either not reported or at best inconsistent. Subjective outcomes, which are highly prevalent in the studies, are also prone to bias due to lack of blinding, and many effects can be explained by regression to the mean.

The development of these interventions should, therefore, occur in the context of research. Treatments for under 18 gender dysphoric children and adolescents remain largely experimental. There are a large number of unanswered questions that include the age at start, reversibility; adverse events, long term effects on mental health, quality of life, bone mineral density, osteoporosis in later life and cognition. We wonder whether off label use is appropriate and justified for drugs such as spironolactone which can cause substantial harms, including death. We are also ignorant of the long-term safety profiles of the different GAH regimens. The current evidence base does not support informed decision making and safe practice."
blogs.bmj.com/bmjebmspotlight/2019/02/25/gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-evidence-review/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3518188-BMJ-Prof-Carl-Heneghan-Evidence-Based-Medicine-Oxford-Panorama-Trans-Kids-Gender-affirming-hormone-in-children-and-adolescents-Evidence-review-concludes-There-are-significant-problems

Ereshkigal · 20/03/2019 18:42

Obviously this was done in Thailand without the same standards of informed consent but if the child was castrated on their 16th birthday they made the decision as a 15yo! Not even a 16yo, let alone 18yo!

Yes I've said this before. Jackie was taken on a flight to Thailand at 15 with this express purpose.

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 20/03/2019 18:43

I am so loving the Streisand effect here. Those tweets were deleted six months ago and now they have gone round the world. And most people who read them will agree with Caroline.

R0wantrees · 20/03/2019 18:44

Or are WYP saying trans women have a vagina and testicles, because that's an interesting look!

There has been discussion that some males are seeking the addition of a surgical orifice without the removal of penis and testicles and that this procedure may become availble to some.

Ereshkigal · 20/03/2019 18:45

Susie Streisand Green.

Ereshkigal · 20/03/2019 18:46

There has been discussion that some males are seeking the addition of a surgical orifice without the removal of penis and testicles

Because of course they are.

PreseaCombatir · 20/03/2019 18:48

When interviewed at the police station, the Hate Crime Officer stated to Posie "you are factually incorrect about sex reassignment surgery, this does not involve castration". These were West Yorkshire Police, remember, not Posie's local force
I’m assuming that they’re trying to be ‘technical’ about this by saying the penis wasn’t actually removed, therefore it isn’t technically castration.

But unless I’m mistaken, castration means removal of testes, and not necessarily the penis.

So even if that’s how they’re trying to spin it, they’re still wrong...

R0wantrees · 20/03/2019 18:49

Link to the documentary, 'Transsexual Teen, Beauty Queen'

from 28:00 there is discussion about the circumstances in which the medical interventions were sought:

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 20/03/2019 18:50

Look - there are men trying to sue their parents for having the circumcised so god alone knows what is in store for parents who have put their prepubescent children on a cocktail of drugs - not to mention the mental pressure and persuasion that may happen for their ‘special kid’ to go down the surgical route later on. And of course the parents of the kids who don’t and grow up in ‘the clan’.

Freespeecher · 20/03/2019 18:55

R0wantrees

Thanks for the info, must admit I'm a bit behind the curve on this one.

I did notice the Graun article that shoehorned in as many indicators of Farrow's Catholicism in as was humanly possible. Didn't quite get to "Farrow, reeking of incense", but it wasn't far off.

DonaldTwain · 20/03/2019 19:03

What are the police up to with these people? Really very strange. What’s in this for them, apart from adverse publicity? Are they really so stupid that they can’t see how this looks, at a time when kids are dying in their dozens from stab wounds?

WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles · 20/03/2019 19:07

I wonder what the general reaction would be in this situation - A female child's mother in the U.K was very concerned when their female child wanted only to play with toys traditionally marketed at boys. The girl also refused to wear dresses at the age of 10. Therefore Mother genuinely believed the girl could, and should, change into a boy.

When the child was 12, the mother asked the NHS to prescribe drugs to the child to cause permanent physical changes to turn the girl into a boy - this was refused due to the very real health risks they pose to a minor. The mother took the child to the US to obtain these drugs. The mother then asked in the U.K. for the child to have a double mastectomy and was refused. Mother then flew the child to Thailand at 15 to have this operation when they reached 16.

Life changing, permanent and unnecessary medical procedures carried out overseas on a child at their parent's request despite already being refused, and indeed illegal, in the U.K.

Response A - social services would be contacting the mother quicker than you can say "unicorn". Social services, and the general public think that not wanting to comply with gender stereotyping is perfectly "normal" and illegal operations performed on minors are A Bad Thing. A safeguarding investigation is launched.

Response B - mother is applauded and celebrated, and launches a charity urging other parents to act who also believe their girl children can turn into boys - and vice versa of course! This charity is supported by National Lottery funding and is invited to advise schools, workplaces, police forces and the NHS on how to achieve these ends such as permanently sterilising their children. With the aid of a useful chart containing jelly babies, GI Joes and Barbies so people can fully understand these issues.

What the actual fuck. Seriously.

R0wantrees · 20/03/2019 19:08

Freespeecher
Caroline Farrow is known as a Catholic journalist and social commentator. I would presume that she would be known for this in media circles?
context:
www.carolinefarrow.net/

Sarcelle · 20/03/2019 19:14

Global traction. Not a fan of DT or his offspring, but posting for illustrative purposes only.

Police interviewing Caroline Farrow under caution and threatening to arrest her for "misgendering"
hackmum · 20/03/2019 19:14

I notice that the Telegraph is now carrying the story about Posie Parker being investigated by police. Better late than never:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/20/second-woman-investigated-police-transphobic-comments/

JackyHolyoake · 20/03/2019 19:20

"What the history books will make of it is anyone’s guess."

Here is what history made of a previous medical atrocity:

4thwavenow.com/2017/02/10/lobotomy-the-rise-and-fall-of-a-miracle-cure/

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/03/2019 19:20

It's all coming out now...

How many people are going to be able to read about a sex change at 16 and not judge like fuck...

ChattyLion · 20/03/2019 19:22

WTF, Donald Trump is tweeting about this now?

hackmum · 20/03/2019 19:29

Donald Trump Jr.