Multiple dead in Chch NZ - Mosques targetted

[Yeahnahyeah]

Heart breaking. It's 3:37pm on Friday here, and this is actually fucking happening.
www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213056

Make your own thread about Māori people

^ this is what Māori have been told forever. We are not part of the conversation, EVER. We have separate schools, excluded from every conversation. This is another example, and a Muslim is doing it while asking for support and empathy for them. The only one being divisive, is you. You could show solidarity to me, like the muslin women who PM’d me. But no. No no one. Tell the Māori to shut up instead, tell her she doesn’t represent her country. I already know that. Think how that feels.

Sonny Bill Williams gets it. He acknowledged here that Muslims aren’t the only ones affected by racism. He gets it because he has had hate in the same country, for the colour of his skin and now as a Muslim. He understands the conversation has to change to move forward. Those seeking to silence sufferers of racism, are part of the problem.

i.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111473647/sonny-bill-williams-arrives-in-christchurch-praises-support-for-muslim-community

Anyway... I’m still waiting for other Kiwis to support the idea of Parihaka Day... they’ll accept hijab but not Māori culture... says it all.

I am someone who has friends and family affected by this event and events like this and I find your comments very insincere and telling. Like the one above.

You did your Māori conversation a disfavour and I don’t owe you to donate my grievance so you can be heard.

This is another example, and a Muslim is doing it while asking for support and empathy for them.

I’m not asking YOU for support. I’m demanding respect for the victims. And I again, don’t need your permission for that.

I’m demanding respect for the victims

And they have it. I’ve given it all week throughout my life, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Don’t make demands if your only concern is for some victims. The wider conversation is being had and Muslims are leading it. Will you tell Sonny Bill to stop talking about racism too? What about other Muslims who contacted me privately? What about Dame Anne Salmond who wrote about all the ways people are hurt through racism, just days later?

Your lack of solidarity and empathy, and ignoring mine, tells us a whole lot about you and where your concerns lie. You are only concerned about one group. You’re ignorant. You have ignored the connections to racism, you have ignored the many Māori and Polynesians who converted to Islam and are talking about exactly the same things I am, publicly. You are extremely naive of the actual problem and you’re trying to exclude indigenous people from the conversation.

You are the problem.

and events like this
So you can talk about other events but I can’t? I have dead family too. I won’t be silenced by you. NO.

My mother stood with a complete stranger this week at a vigil, a Muslim woman. They embraced, the lady kissed my mother all over, exchanged a hongi and this lady said, ‘ I know you know. We can help each other’

It’s a shame you don’t share her empathy and solidarity.

I’ve just read this thread and I agree 100% with LifeisToughMate. That was a brilliant post at 23:06.

Pushing your own feminist views about the hijab during this atrocity is just very selfish and quite frankly disrespectful.

Pushing your own feminist views about the hijab during this atrocity is just very selfish and quite frankly disrespectful.

A couple of people mentioned it briefly, ffs. And it wasn’t a criticism of Muslims, it was the virtue signalling of people who can take it off. Muslim people themselves criticised it. If you also think we shouldn’t discuss other aspects of this, gun control & racism, you’re part of the problem as well. We’ve long moved on from that small point, you should too.

Persimmonn if you thought that was a great post, where I was called an islamaphobia sympathiser, then you’re a racist too. Both of you are.

You’re a very angry person. Calm down.

I’m allowed to be angry. I’m very angry at people attacking me for wanting a conversation that extends beyond sympathy alone, I’m very angry that I am being targeted by racists for saying what other Muslim and Māori have been saying all week. I will not calmly respond to anyone questioning my integrity or my empathy. Empathy goes both ways. I am very angry people came to my country for a peaceful life, but because Māori have been ignored for years and years, they were not safe. That makes me fucking angry. So does racism.

you have ignored the many Māori and Polynesians who converted to Islam and are talking about exactly the same things I am.

I bet you they also do not appreciate the manner in which you are presenting the issue. There looks to be a new Zealand revert lady who had died in the mosque, wearing the hijab. Another few survivors. I hope your views about the hijab are not too strong as to have some courtesy to at least respect her views upon which she died instead of trying to push some feminism campaign about her appearance right now which I’m sure no one in the mosque appreciates.

So don’t make this about me not respecting Maoris, I have a Muslim friend married to one. It’s simply that you are not seeing beyond yourself in this instance and should be told as much. There isn’t room for solidarity when you are competing in whether Prahika day gets a

Would you have liked people to be focusing on Whinna’s headscarf during the march?

Would you have liked people to discuss people’s dress sense during the Manchester attacks?

Would you have liked the dress sense of Jewish ladies and rabbis be discussed during a hollocaust vigil.

If you had familiarised yourself enough with the Muslim victims, you would have known. So I suggest instead of focusing on your own agenda of how you want to help girls with headscarves take it off, that at a time like this you help them in a way that they want to b helped.

Perhaps you should b joining your mum more often. The NZ mosques are open for those who want to b familiar.

You might find a lot of similarities indeed. But you will also b disappointed to know that not many appreciate your sentiment in telling them what you believe they should dress like at a time like this.

It is quite depreciating of people’s lives to want to push an agenda unto them after their deaths which you quite well know that they don’t appreciate. Simple as

revert?

Solidarity with all Kiwis who are suffering, and have been dealing with the suffering that racism produces for a long time. And solidarity with JessicaWakefieldSVH who has every right to be angry. I don't think it matters who you are, you don't get to come on a thread on the Feminist Chat board and tell a feminist they are too angry and they need to shut up about things you don't want them to discuss. She's said nothing to minimize the pain of the Muslims involved. She is talking about the wider picture that has led to the current events. The attack on her here is way out of line.

You didn’t just attack me over hijab. I don’t really care what people wear, it’s their religion or personal preference. I have issues with all religion, as an atheist, but will absolutely defend anyone’s right to their beliefs. I object to women being punished for their choices. That’s it. Happy to leave that conversation, you’re the one extending it. My main issue was with virtue signalling.

Oh you know a Māori? Oh that means you can’t be racist and disrespectful then 🤦🏽‍♀️

I’m not ‘competing’, I’m asking for respect like anyone else. I’m also not the only one discussing these issues, much of it is happening publicly, some privately.

I have no intention of attending any religious services, as an atheist. My mum didn’t either, it was in a public domain. That doesn’t make me islamaphobic. Respect everyone’s beliefs, including the right not to have religious ones. That doesn’t mean we hate religious people or don’t respect them.

You have completely ignored the main thrust of my posts here. I have called for tolerance, for a change in culture. I have given much empathy to these victims and targeting of a specific religion because it’s not a white mans one. Elsewhere I have shared my Tā Moko as the Koru is a symbol of change, of new beginnings and of peace. We can’t have any of that if people like yourself attempt to silence indigenous people who have insight and understanding you do not. Again, I am not the only one speaking of this, plenty of Māori have and that includes Muslim Māori.

I have no intention of defending myself against your baseless and dismissive attacks further. If anyone has diverted attention, it’s yourself. Your lack of solidarity is very telling. I suggest it is you who needs to take some lessons from your fellow muslim’s who are listening to us.

Bowl, revert is the Muslim term for convert, as they believe everyone is born Muslim.

CaptainMarvelBunting

Thank you. While this is deeply unpleasant and an extension of the racism I’ve had all my life, I have made what I think is a lovely new online friend, a Muslim women who is teaching me about her culture, and very eager to learn about mine. I continue to hope for the a change in how we treat people of colour, religious or not.

Yes, the fact this is on a feminist board and they think they can attack me for having feminist opinions, is quite bizarre.

as they believe everyone is born Muslim.

Intriguing. Do any other religions do this?

@Bowl,

Today is the first Friday after the terrorist attack where many Muslims will be attending mosques all over the world and their feelings abou this the events revived.

Perhaps might be a good chance for you to get to know your Muslim neighbours and ask them what they mean by “revert” as Gladly any Muslim will tell you.

LifeIsToughMate thinking of you and your family today, as you go to prayers.

May it be a peaceful day.

Do any other religions do this?

Oh I think they do but with different words etc it’s not uncommon. My father and his large family are Roman Catholic but my Māori mum pretty much raised me without religion, so I’m not sure exactly how they word it. My husband was raised in Assembly of God and has mentioned similar belief around that- he left the church in his late teens and his family disowned us. It’s not specific to one religion from what I under stand. You could ask Caroline Farrow on that thread about her recent experiences.

May it be a peaceful day.

I’m sure everyone here wholeheartedly supports this message for peace

I know my Muslim neighbours well thanks, they’re good friends. Fled Iran, and don’t have many nice things to say about religious absolutism.

I am not of any faith, and I find the blanket assertion that I am, and always have been, rather unpleasant and totalitarian. A secular public sphere, where those who hold a religion are protected is essential to community cohesion. Criticism of any ideology is also an essential right in a free society. When criticism of an ideology is shut down with the implication that any criticism of an ideology is hate speech and akin to violence against a person, we have a problem.

The victims of this dreadful atrocity were killed because they held a religion. That’s against everything a secular society stands for.

And so is the mass imposition of one religion on those who don’t want it.

I am not, never have been and never will be, an adherent of any religion. I support a society where those who are can practise freely and are protected from harm for doing so.

I seem to remember learning at school that one of the American religions write down everyone's names into their book (essentially 'in'ing everyone on the planet). This could be a load of nonsense though.