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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Multiple dead in Chch NZ - Mosques targetted

251 replies

Yeahnahyeah · 15/03/2019 02:29

Heart breaking. It's 3:37pm on Friday here, and this is actually fucking happening.
www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213056

OP posts:
JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 10:25

Tbh this prob wasn’t a good post for the feminist boards 🤷🏾‍♀️

Bowlofbabelfish · 22/03/2019 10:29

I think that’s Mormons fekko - it’s why they’re so good for family history research.

Again, I’m not terribly keen on being baptised into a religion I dont hold. I shall need to work a time share agreement with various hells

LifeIsToughMate · 22/03/2019 10:38

Would @MNHQ please move this out of the feminism forum. It is seeming rather impossible to keep this respectfully focused on the victims.

I’d hate to know that if I had been murdered people would find it very difficult to focus on ways to prevent this from happening and instead start debating my life choices and how they know best.

Thanks everyone who sent messages of support:

Persimmonn · 22/03/2019 10:39

I don't think it matters who you are, you don't get to come on a thread on the Feminist Chat board and tell a feminist they are too angry and they need to shut up about things you don't want them to discuss.

Calm. Down.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 10:43

LifeIsToughMate you can’t ask, only OP can. You didn’t start this thread so how about you start one elsewhere of your own and then you can dictate what the focus is.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 10:44

very difficult to focus on ways to prevent this from happening

But that’s what this thread included and you attacked people for it. Please feel free to start your own thread of remembrance. Nobody is forcing you to come here, to the feminism board

Bowlofbabelfish · 22/03/2019 10:46

The best way to prevent this from happening again is an open, secular society where free speech and rule of law prevail, and where plurality of thought and opinion is tolerated and where people from different races, cultures and creeds can exist in harmony, free from any threat of compelled speech or belief.

There is no hell save that we create here on Earth, and the very definition of that is what happens when someone violent enough to go into a place of worship and shoot at innocent men women and children gets hold of automatic weapons and acts out their deranged fantasies.

Bowlofbabelfish · 22/03/2019 10:47

And where Male violence isn’t excused or ignored. ..

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 12:12

I don’t want to speak for the OP but I imagine posting on the feminism board was to have a conversation about Male violence, along with sympathy for those affected, which has been displayed throughout the thread by everyone. We could move on to male violence I think without offending anyone, and others not happy could start a remberance focused one elsewhere. It is the feminism board, telling women to calm down or shut up is not cool here.

LifeIsToughMate · 22/03/2019 12:35

It is fine to have a conversation about Male violence while keeping the greater picture in perspective. Which this thread has failed to do.

This argument is frankly infertile.

To summarise, the victims and their families and the primary affected community believe to prevent this in the future:

1- there needs to be an end to the dehumanisation of Muslims which is a breeding ground for white supremacists and islamophobia. This means respecting their views and right to choose them and practice them without harassment and disrespect.

2- there should be stricter measures to tackle islamophobia and religious hatered Aimed at the Muslims communities by tackling ignorance and encouraging familiarity so one can build their own understanding as opposed to rely on biased media. And by cracking down on islamophobic remarks that seem to pigeonhole Muslims in one category.

Of course debating Male violence and religious intolerance comes under these as most evil has shared elements but most of the arguments I’m seeing above are exclusive of these and completely dismissive of the main point.

I have seen a lot of dehumanisation, treating death as a secondary matter with a double standard that won’t apply to any other terror attack, imposing on someone else’s practices with supremist mentality, sympathy with islamophobia, and complete ignorance and lack of interest in familiarising yourselves from the correct source.

Those that this applies to know themselves so no need to name and shame. Doesn’t apply to everyone though and thanks for those who kept true to their compassionate selves.

So I’m sorry, this thread belong to the victims before anyone else and on their behalf I shall “dictate” where the focus should be.

Plz OP, I am writing this full of sorrow over the tragedy and this thread is making me lose hope in humanity. Just move it to a place where it can receive the respectful type of attention.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 12:39

So I’m sorry, this thread belong to the victims before anyone else and on their behalf I shall “dictate” where the focus should be

Nope. You can’t dicate anything, and your emotional manipulation and resentment of indigenous people is here for all to see. This is a feminist board. You don’t own this thread, as long as you keep coming here to make people out to be something they’re not, dictating the focus should be on your religion, you’ll get pushback. This is a FEMINIST BOARD. This tragedy didn’t happen in a vaccumn and lots of views need to be respected, not just yours.

Go and start your own thread.

Yossarian22 · 22/03/2019 12:40

To all of those affected by this barbaric act, you are in my Duas today.💐

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 12:41

For those wanting a wider discussion re feminism and events such as these, this was a good article from last October

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/29/lone-wolf-terrorists-and-domestic-violence-its-time-to-start-joining-the-dots

Persimmonn · 22/03/2019 13:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 13:32

personal attacks aren't permitted on MN.

CaptainMarvelBunting · 22/03/2019 13:36

Persimmonn

Calm. Down.

You aren't helping the situation here. I am perfectly calm.

It really doesn't go down well to be making demands on the Feminist board about what may be discussed here. I am extremely uncomfortable with the authoritarian tone being used to demand the conversation run in a specific direction only.

Persimmonn · 22/03/2019 13:56

Nobody is making demands. The fact you can’t be respectful says a lot about you. This thread was started because the OP was shocked/saddened. It’s turned into a selfish rant about something not even remotely related to the victims of this terror attack. We should be remembering them, respectfully. Even if they wore hijabs. Leave your own opinions and rants for another day when this all isn’t so raw.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 22/03/2019 14:09

Nobody is making demands

I consider it rude and insensitive that you shall think that you can use your voice at a time like this to share your opinion about the hijab

Would @MNHQ please move this out of the feminism forum. It is seeming rather impossible to keep this respectfully focused on the victims

Calm Down

these read like demands

on a feminist board a feminist interpretation will be made of the hijab

if you can't deal with that this may not be the place for you

CaptainMarvelBunting · 22/03/2019 14:10

Wind in the personal attacks. JessicaWakefieldSVH hasn't been disrespectful to the victims at all.

Nobody on MN, or FWR here, gets to dictate the direction of a thread. Telling women what they can and cannot talk about will be challenged here. The only reason this has blown up here is because you and LifeIsToughMate have taken some passing comments about Jacinta Ardern and taken them as an attack on the victim's clothing choices, which is a bizarre reading anyway.

You can't tell the women here what they are permitted to post. It does not work like that here.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 14:19

anyone RTFT will know I have absolutely not been disrespectful and the first half of the thread was about the victims. I am the only one that posted links to donations pages.

And actually, the word demand is used in a comment above.

Can't we all just respect each others contributions and that these horrible events will result in discussions around contributing factors without the attacks? without telling us what to say? Come on. This kind of demands of others is what starts resentment and anger and divisiveness.

There are other threads you can go to on MN about this tragedy, one is focussed on those directly affected. Please allow feminists to discuss feminist issues on this board without name calling.

Peace x

Persimmonn · 22/03/2019 15:01

You can't tell the women here what they are permitted to post. It does not work like that here.

Yes exactly! Practise what you preach.

CaptainMarvelBunting · 22/03/2019 15:08

Persimmonn

Comprehension is clearly a challenge here.

Women were discussing a number of issues in relation to the terrible events in NZ. Someone came on the thread to tell those women to only talk about a very narrowly defined topic. The women refused. You came on and told the women they were too angry and should calm down, and you agreed with the poster who prescribed the controlled topic list.

I have pointed out that you can't attempt to enforce silence on women who wish to discuss things. In telling you that you can't silence women, I am not telling you that you may not discuss what you want, just that you cannot enforce compliance in silence from the women who were already having a conversation.

HTH.

Powergower · 22/03/2019 19:15

So much whataboutery on this thread. I agree that it took a nasty turn when the criticism of the hijab started. As women and feminists We need to learn to accept that some Muslim women CHOOSE to wear the hijab. That is their choice. Just as it is the choice of those women who don't wear it. It was a distasteful in a thread where every female victim of this murderer died wearing the hijab. I don't really understand how and why women wear it but I respect their right to do so. Or not, as the case may be.

I am seeing more and more intersectionality in feminism. If we are to fight for our rights as women that should include ALL women and all their choices.

Lots of fascinating information on this thread. Also a lot of hurt and anger. I'm fascinated by the history of new Zealand and will now look into it further, but this atrocity was aimed at a very very specific group of people. People should be allowed to discuss that openly. Women should, if they choose, be able to wear hijab in support without criticism. Live and let live.

My sympathies go out to all the victims and for the indigenous people too across the world. So so many people of colour still affected why the colonisation perpetuated by the white man so many hundreds of years later.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 21:02

People should be allowed to discuss that openly. yes they should, nobody has stopped that. Its not 'whataboutery' to have a wider conversation that includes the many aspects of the culture that created this kind of thinking, especially on this board... its reductive not to. Many people of colour in NZ are talking about all the issues in this thread, including muslim people who are talking with indigenous people too. We are giving love and support to one another and I certainly hope we can keep doing so. My old hometown where my Nan suffered so much hatred, now has an Indian Mayor who has embraced our culture, and yesterday now in NZ, held an amazing service at my old school ( land taken from Nan ) with a call to prayer that was incredible to listen to online. Many cultures and many people of colour, all supporting muslim people and including indigenous in the ceremony. Thats to be applauded in my honest opinion. I am very proud it happened on what should be my land. My Nan would approve I am sure.

Powergower · 22/03/2019 21:46

It had been fascinating hearing about nz from those who have lived there. Before this thread I assumed nz was an amazing, open, welcome society. Paradise. Reading about the issues nz has made me realise how sucked in we can get with media portrayals. Of course the issues are ingrained otherwise why would the atrocity happen. A much wider discussion needs to happen about male violence and violence aimed at people of religion. Is there any more cowardly act than shooting at people prostrating in prayer.