4thWaveNow has some incredibly disturbing stuff from Facebook

[GabrielleNelson]

twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1104427039082405888

This one is a tweet with screenshots of 'packers', i.e. plastic penises, for girls under 5 who identify as boys to wear in their pants. (Yes, you read that right. I'd say a trans 3yo is like a vegan cat. We all know who's made that call.)

That led a concerned parent to send them a lot of screenshots from a Facebook group for affirming parents of trans children. First batch are about packers, starting here. twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1104778089974980609

Second batch are about underwear for biological boys designed to minimise bulges in the genital area. (So the opposite of the above.) twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1105542499483955200

Third batch are about binders being worn by biological girls and causing serious respiratory issues. twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1105585448657801217

The whole thing is just sickening. Why isn't anyone sane in authority trying to re-assert normality and put the health and wellbeing of these confused children and teenagers first?

God forbid the UK ever goes the same way.

The child is used to further the parents own ambition.

I think it's a big more complex than that. More about wanting their child to get the best rather than pure ambition, though that comes into it.

The denial that accompanies it is more dark. I think its a naivety or total lack of life experience tbh. It would explain a class divide.

the mothers had to much to lose from halting the whole scenario, and so they chose to over-rule their suspicions and fears

And the same is true of parents of trans children. If you have facilitated a mastectomy for your child, how can you possibly change your mind and become GC. How would you be able to live with yourself. The further parents go with transitioning their children the harder it is for them to decide that actually they were wrong...

how can you possibly change your mind and become GC. How would you be able to live with yourself.

This.

Once you are emotionally invested, withdrawing from it requests a massive admission that you have allowed harm to happen. It's easier to double down.

I think it's a big more complex than that. More about wanting their child to get the best rather than pure ambition, though that comes into it.

It doesn't get any more complex than that, for the reason it is often unconscious behaviour. That's complex enough. Some parents really are quite pushy when it comes to their children, and express their own ambitions and desires through them. Often for many women their children are the main avenue they have for acclaim or validation. Children in certain senses are their parents' creations.

I'm not sure if you saw the Michael Jackson expose, but the two mothers most definitely were living through and enjoying the access to the lifestyle that Jackson's interest in their sons permitted.

And the same is true of parents of trans children. If you have facilitated a mastectomy for your child, how can you possibly change your mind and become GC. How would you be able to live with yourself. The further parents go with transitioning their children the harder it is for them to decide that actually they were wrong...

I think you're most definitely right. Especially when you gone to the trouble of taking your child to a foreign country for surgery that was not available in your own. Maintaining, and even further promoting, the illusion of the 'transition' means not having to face the quite profound reality.

The whole trans culture seems to depend on everyone having to agree not to face facts and reality; and not to call things what they really are.

The whole trans culture seems to depend on everyone having to agree not to face facts and reality; and not to call things what they really are

The thing is though, normally when parents get really dodgy ideas that are promulgated and harming children, eg anti-vaxxers, sensible people will come along and point out that they are harming children. People like the WHO or the government, or doctors associations.

With transing children though, no-one with any power is speaking out, individuals are, but recognised organisations are not.

Why is this?

Once you are emotionally invested, withdrawing from it requests a massive admission that you have allowed harm to happen. It's easier to double down.

Yes. Self protection from a deeply painful truth.

OK, sorry folks, there's more. twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1109135524948779008

1. LONG THREAD: Testosterone for nonbinary 13-year-olds, in the latest batch of leaked posts from the affirmative parent group. In several threads, multiple mothers appear to claim that Dr. Olson-Kennedy is prescribing T to middle schoolers, in some cases without blockers first.

That's as far as I've got so far, but that's bad, isn't it? @Bowlofbabelfish, do you have any idea how that would affect a female body in the early stages of puberty?

That most recent thread is going to stop me sleeping tonight.

I'm sorry, LangCleg. I just can't get my head round any of this, but I'm grateful for the advance warning of what some would like to see happening over here. For the moment this couldn't happen here, not on the NHS anyway, but we know there will be parents taking their children abroad, and kids buying drugs on the internet, and private doctors with lax ethical standards.

From reading that thread I have questions about what's happening in the US.

1. Qualified doctors, presumably subject to some sort of professional standards and ethical requirements, are prescribing cross-hormones to very young girls (it's pretty clear this thread is about confused teenage girls who mostly aren't necessarily IDing as trans but as nonbinary or transmasculine, whatever that means). How are they not being censured? There's no research evidence confirming this is safe, is there?

1. From the standard of the English in those screenshots, the parents are educated people. I get that they are probably desperately worried about their children but why swallow this unscientific, unevidenced stuff wholesale? Lots of parents agonise over getting their children vaccinated or giving them Calpol but here we have a group taking them across the country to get a competely untested drug regime that will make permanent changes to their teenagers' bodies.

1. The manufacturers of the drugs, the people that run the gender clinics, the health insurers, the people aware of this from schools, colleges, youth groups and whatever the US equivalent of social services is - they're complicit. They're not raising concerns. Why not?

1. The professional bodies regulating medicine and psychology in the US appear to have no stance on any of this either. Why not?

oh my, that thread. I cannot even get my head around what the hell is happening? how can this be real?! How the fuck can this happen to children?

That makes really grim reading. This has an influence on girls in Europe too, we know two confused, ASD girls, one in my dd’s class, and another in mainland Europe. Both mid teens, both suddenly saying they are boys. Dd’s classmate has talked to her about getting a binder. It is just heartbreaking. I suppose at least in Britain they are unlikely to get hormonal treatment yet.

Johanna Olson Kennedy is joining Helen Webberley and others for a live Q&A on 31st March if anyone feels like asking her some hard questions.

gendergp.co.uk/liveonlineevent/

Sometimes I just can't believe what I'm reading.

If these parents were forcing their children to eat salt or whatever to make them ill for attention, the law would come down like a ton of bricks - but it seems that you can bamboozle, manipulate and pressure your child into taking dangerous drugs so that you can make him/her in the image you desire, and that's okay.