4thWaveNow has some incredibly disturbing stuff from Facebook

[GabrielleNelson]

twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1104427039082405888

This one is a tweet with screenshots of 'packers', i.e. plastic penises, for girls under 5 who identify as boys to wear in their pants. (Yes, you read that right. I'd say a trans 3yo is like a vegan cat. We all know who's made that call.)

That led a concerned parent to send them a lot of screenshots from a Facebook group for affirming parents of trans children. First batch are about packers, starting here. twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1104778089974980609

Second batch are about underwear for biological boys designed to minimise bulges in the genital area. (So the opposite of the above.) twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1105542499483955200

Third batch are about binders being worn by biological girls and causing serious respiratory issues. twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1105585448657801217

The whole thing is just sickening. Why isn't anyone sane in authority trying to re-assert normality and put the health and wellbeing of these confused children and teenagers first?

God forbid the UK ever goes the same way.

Pure speculation, but Susie Green and Jeanette Jennings, both strike me as women who would not be in the slightest bit comfortable taking a back seat

profiles of mothers of children abused by their fathers who denied any knowledge of the abuse.

This rings true. Sometimes mothers who are in denial about the real cause of their children's distress (abuse) will try to attach it to something (anything) else e.g. organic mental health issues, developmental issues, or them being trans.

It helps them to feel less guilt about their distressed kid to imagine the issues lie in the kid, not the kids environment at home or elsewhere. The guilt about not protecting their child - even if actually they couldn't have done any different because the circumstances were out of their control. Mothers always seem to carry an extra burden of responsibility and to imagine themselves to blame even for what isn't or wasn't their fault. So focusing on their child's gender dysphoria is them putting the attention elsewhere maybe.

In some cases though it will be narcissism, or else just a reaction to group pressure of "do what is "right" for your child" (even when it's not right).

Jesus. I'm still struggling with this.

Jeanette Jennings knows how Jazz Jennings' life has got increasingly worse. Whilst Jeanette is being applauded for it.

It's the Susie Green School of I need younger children to validate the decisions I made over my own child.

What frightens me is there are so many people invested in this, that blowing it wide open is going to be comprehensively resisted.

I only had a quick look at this yesterday so came back for a better look. I was thinking of a suitable way to express my utter horror at how deeply abusive this is towards these poor kids, but DS11 came in and asked me what I was oh my godding and jesus christing at. I didn’t tell him, I couldn’t possibly tell him, because it’s just too fucked up to tell an 11 year old child, I just said it was something silly on the internet. That pretty much illustrates what I was intending to say. It’s too disturbing to tell my own child, what these parents are doing to their much younger children is too fucked up to even tell my much older one.

These kids need to be removed from their parents for their own good, and the parents need locking up.

My heart really breaks for those children. I don’t know how you would ever unpick that and process it later in life. They must be so confused. They are far too young to possibly understand.

The whole thing is utterly distressing. There's one post where a mother talks about using duct tape to "tuck". Horrific.

Ffs. HOW is strapping your pre-pubescent child's penis down with tape something that wouldn't make any sane parent have a fucking word with themselves?!

It reminds me disturbingly of those Victorian anti masturbation devices - basically a cage on a belt that made erections uncomfortable & stopped the child handling his penis.

It's a shame Brexit is drowning this out.

Hopefully next week this will gain more traction.

It's interesting about the mothers trying to live through their children. More likely to happen to mothers because so many women give up work or find themselves sidelined after they have children. Many years ago my son played chess for a school club and qualified for a few regional competitions. I was transfixed by the snippets of conversation I overheard. Blindingly obvious that the parents were trying to achieve all sorts of things through their children. I wonder how they've turned out.

'Remind me, which school did X get into? Y got offers from A, B, C and D. D offered a 100% scholarship but A's results are better ...'

'It's so exhausting parenting a gifted child! Nobody really gets this if they haven't had to do it themselves ...'

'I said to P "You should have beaten Q easily! So no Gameboy* for you tonight, you need to practise for tomorrow ..." '

*Can't now remember which console was in at the time but you get the idea.

Some more stuff here. twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1105877097317318656 Clearer and clearer that in some of these cases the impetus is coming from the mother, and yes, it is the mother. So depressing.

My sibling transitioned as an adult.

I don't think all of this is restricted to children. I bet there is a pattern for older transitioners too.

I found the thread about chest binders particularly worrying. One parent was talking about how her 'son' was having breathing difficulties and might end up with permanent lung damage, but doctor said all would be well as long as 'he' lifted it up and took a few deep breaths twice per day. Parent seemed to accept this and be relaxed about it.

I might be wrong, it's difficult to say from a small selection of screenshots, but I saw a difference in the attitude of the girls towards the packers as opposed to the binders.

The impression was that it was the parents pushing the packers, and the girls were not that bothered. Parents were talking about buying a packer when their child had not asked for one, or that they child just leaves it lying about etc...

Conversely, on the thread about binders, the issue seemed to be with getting the girls to take them off sometimes. The talk was about health problems arising from the girls wearing them round the clock.

So it seems to me that these young girls aren't embracing being boys, so much as rejecting being girls, which I know has certainly been mentioned on these forums. It's more to do with not wanting to grow up as a female in a misogynistic society, rather than actually wanting to be male.

I spotted tg
the bewilderness posting on those tweets.
Hey, if you are reading

WTAF..?!

So it seems to me that these young girls aren't embracing being boys, so much as rejecting being girls, which I know has certainly been mentioned on these forums. It's more to do with not wanting to grow up as a female in a misogynistic society, rather than actually wanting to be male.

Yes, exactly.

I really don't think it's difficult to follow this line of reasoning, either. In fact it's fairly obvious.

Quite. All this mealy mouthed "It's so complicated, we can't judge parents in a tough situation".

Bollocks to that. It's not complicated at all.

If, as a parent, you are buying items from sex shops for your kids, giving your kids development stunting drugs and insisting they take them even when it is clearly interfering with their functions and they don't want to, or taping down their genitals with duct tape, you are not someone responding to a complicated situation who should be cossetted in your difficulties.

You are an abuser who needs to be stopped quickly.

Jesus wept, that last link. The woman whose three-year-old son wonders when his boobs are going to grow? And she is taking it as a sign that he is transgender. Despite him also asking when she's going to grow a penis. Does that mean she is transgender by proxy, for fuck's sake.

And all the others. It's about clothes and jewellery.

These people have been utterly brainwashed.

Someone asked last year where we thought this was all going. This is where.

Gender stereotyping being so entrenched that even a whiff of transgression will have you marched straight into a doctor's surgery.

Because it's happening now. Today. To hordes of children. Not just one or two.

Jesus.

every so often while I'm just getting on with my life I remember that as a society we are medicating gender non conformity in children. As if it were a disease or a problem

and then the rage and despair take hold for a bit

I keep remembering that boy upthread who wants to explore his developing sexuality, and whose parents are chemically castrating him.

I hope they go to gaol.

A two year old signed "girl," instead of "boy," at a baby sign language class and they went all in - that's insane.

How do you even start that conversation with your partner/family and get them on board, it would sound mad. My DH and DPs would seriously worry about me if I changed DCs name and gender at age TWO after a baby signing mistake. Everyone else would just say "boy," and show them the sign. What is girl is easier to sign, like Dada is easier than Mama?

Keeping up with the latest trends isn't what it used to be. The kids are fashion accessories to a "liberal identity".

This is just so repulsive. I feel sick at heart reading these posts about brainwashing children into a belief that their bodies are wrong and that they therefore must repress what is there and eventually mutilate them. These are small children. It's horrific that they are led to believe their bodies are bad, it just goes against all we know about building up self esteem and good mental health outcomes, surely? If a child is told at three years old that he should 'hide himself away' because he is really a girl, he is going to believe it because it comes from those he trusts. These poor children have no chance.

I'm thinking about two women I know who have trans kids. One has been through an awful time, abusive relationships, a lot of loneliness. She's felt like it's been her and her child against the world from day one, so would do anything for that child. The child has had a lot of mental health issues from very early on and at around 13 decided they wanted to be the other gender. Since then the mum has been like a bulldozer, pushing against any resistance and standing with her child. She truly believes she is doing the best thing for the child and would be devastated if she was told it wasn't in the child's best interest at all. The other is a very 'alpha' mum - think committees, high profile, very very pushy, at the centre of everything. The child here has claimed to be the other sex from early on and the mum has pushed things through for them at school.
I think they both truly believe they are doing what is right, and just haven't been able to understand the darker side of it all. In the first case the child has threatened suicide so I really do understand why the mum is so insistent: she is terrified. The whole thing is just so incredibly sad. And I can't help thinking if this child had been given appropriate support for her mental health issues instead of being affirmed and made 'special' things would look different. The child is still struggling greatly after transition

I feel devastated for these children and all the others like them, and even more so for those in these hideous links.

They don’t want us to draw back the rainbow glitter mermaid unicorn curtain, because they know full well behind that curtain is child abuse and children and young adults left with broken bodies and minds from what’s been inflicted on them.

Yes. I think this is so true.

It's getting more and more clear that extremist transactivism acts as a magnet for the maladaptive, isn't it?

We see male pattern abusive behaviours within it in exaggerated proportions to the population at large.

And we're seeing abusive tiger/helicopter/Munchausens parenting within it in exaggerated proportions to the population at large.

In all other areas and settings, we recognise these maladaptive behaviours as harmful, which they are, and attempt to control and minimise them. Why not here? When will TPTB even notice, let alone act? Why do we suddenly pretend that the decades of safeguarding knowledge and practice we have built up no longer apply?

This has confirmed something that's really worried me about the recent BBC articles about trans children. There is no description of dysphoria. I wish supporters would step back & think about the implications of that. What is the reason for all this if there's no dysphoria for most of these kids? What do the suicide stats mean if we accept the vast majority of these children are not dysphoric? How the hell is it considered transphobic to even ask these questions?

There's some real cognitive dissonance going on as well. The trans children I know both also choose when and what they eat, very child led. Parents will say - with no irony - that they don't want to give them body issues by forcing vegetables on them. Complain about school lunches or healthy eating lessons. The people who transitioned their child at four genuinely think that five is too young to think about healthy eating, in case it leads to eating disorders.

Well that's all very horrifying

Not sure if the parents are:
Thick
Brainwashed
Or just have munchausens by proxy