4thWaveNow has some incredibly disturbing stuff from Facebook

[GabrielleNelson]

twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1104427039082405888

This one is a tweet with screenshots of 'packers', i.e. plastic penises, for girls under 5 who identify as boys to wear in their pants. (Yes, you read that right. I'd say a trans 3yo is like a vegan cat. We all know who's made that call.)

That led a concerned parent to send them a lot of screenshots from a Facebook group for affirming parents of trans children. First batch are about packers, starting here. twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1104778089974980609

Second batch are about underwear for biological boys designed to minimise bulges in the genital area. (So the opposite of the above.) twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1105542499483955200

Third batch are about binders being worn by biological girls and causing serious respiratory issues. twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/1105585448657801217

The whole thing is just sickening. Why isn't anyone sane in authority trying to re-assert normality and put the health and wellbeing of these confused children and teenagers first?

God forbid the UK ever goes the same way.

This is fucking disgusting. I see the majority of these posts as sexualising young children and am astounded that that kind of talk is 'normal' in groups like that. Surely, all normal people would feel disgusted by such talk?!

Why is it women doing this to their kids?
Almost every post here refers "parents", but these are mums, not dads.
We don't say "people" when we're talking about men, so why not say "women" here?
Is it Munchausen by proxy (known to affect women more)?

It's so horrendous, it's hard to read. Literally child abuse.

And yet the completely fucking insane thing is that in some countries/states, the medics involved would potentially now not be allowed to raise any concerns or try to stop this, and parents are at risk of having their children removed/losing contact if they try to prevent a spouse from doing this, or stop "affirming" their child themselves. (I would add "angry/sad" faces, but until MN gets a "Munch scream" emoticon, I don't think they cut it any more).

Not incidentally, 4thWaveNow also mention in the comments that Jazz Jennings' mother is a moderator on this forum.

I hope there will be a massive reckoning for the people involved in this, further down the line.

Not incidentally, 4thWaveNow also mention in the comments that Jazz Jennings' mother is a moderator on this forum.

At the risk of coming across as sanctimonious, I don't think I could ever have countenanced doing any of the things discussed on that forum.

It amazes me that trained health care and social work professionals are not intervening. to prevent this. In fact, on the contrary, some of them are making a good living out of facilitating, even promoting, this.

Almost every post here refers "parents", but these are mums, not dads.

Hmm yes, it does always seem to be the mothers. That court case where the mum was trying to force the kid to be trans..it was the dad against it. Does seem to be mainly women who support TRA nonsense too.

I feel sick that these kids are being failed so badly. And that the repercussions will affect their whole lives.

Why women ? Why do mothers fall for this ?

I was reading about this subject on another forum. The issue of it almost always being lead by the mothers came up, and the fact that MBP is almost always lead by mothers too, and also that the profile of the fathers in MBP cases is very much the same as the profiles of mothers of children abused by their fathers who denied any knowledge of the abuse. I don’t have a citation for this, but it does feel like another piece of this monstrous puzzle.

They don’t want us to draw back the rainbow glitter mermaid unicorn curtain, because they know full well behind that curtain is child abuse and children and young adults left with broken bodies and minds from what’s been inflicted on them.

I've been wondering this myself recently. It does seem to be mostly mothers perpetuating it. However the flip side is that it is mostly mothers/women fighting back against it.

A strange juxtaposition.

This is beyond disturbing - I can’t even look at most of the links. Wtf do these parents think they are doing? Please let there be more media coverage of this to expose these practises. Grooming, sex toys for children, denial of normal sexual urges

The family I know with a young transed child, it is the father driving it and the mother insecure about her parenting and going along with it. The certainty the dad, or the internet, offers is really reassuring for people who are struggling as parents.

Curiously, the dad also behaves in a weird way regarding dropping his child at school. He walks to school telling them how brave they are, how scary school is, making it a huge deal each day. I think he enjoys the child getting distressed and his big display of comforting them, carrying them into school with all the sympathetic looks he gets. A few of us, including people who don't even know child is trans, feel really uncomfortable with his behaviour but can't quite articulate it to talk to the school, if that makes sense.

He accused a fellow parent of not parenting because she left her not distressed child in line and talked to other people, instead of staging a massive farewell every morning. We're talking on his knees, "I'll miss you so much," drama, that nobody else does. It just seems so fake and weird and not a million miles from Munchasen (sp?)

I don't have the experience or language to really explain it but there is something going on that we don't fully recognise as abusive or wrong, yet, like a parental need for recognition manifesting in a detached way. Parents who have few RL friends, so get their perspective on line where it's all dramatic with no context. Sorry for rambling, I just can't put my finger on it but I know if someone else does, I'll be able to say "yes, that's it!!"

I don't think he'd buy a plastic penis though, that's on a different level,

Why mothers? It's an interesting question. In some, I hope many cases, I think it is because mothers are more accepting of their children as individuals, so more inclined to "support" or at least listen to, a child who wants/claims to want to change gender. And then when these mothers seek guidance on how to deal with it, they are quickly sucked into the trans echo chamber and pretty much told they'll be actively harming their child if they don't get 100% on the bandwagon. Pretty hard when you've got a distressed child on the one hand and the establishment on the other telling you that you have to go with this. And then lots of helpful hand-holding from recommended organisations to make sure you do - and keep doing - the right thing.

Others are clearly narcassists viewing their child as an extention of themsrlves that can be manipulated for attention and personal gain.

At least that's how I see it.

I think the dad I know doesn't contradict the pattern as he's the main carer and possibly unfulfilled. Most people feeling that way would be mums.

Fuck. That’s made me cry with pure heartbroken rage for those poor children. I cannot believe anyone could support this - I want it on the front page of every paper and being shouted from the rooftops. This. Is. Child. Abuse. This is exactly what it looks like to see children being abused. The normalisation of horrific sexualisation of very small children is chilling, as is the casual disregard for their children’s bodily autonomy. “Oh don’t worry darling, I know you’re happy with your vagina but Mummy is going to sort out some further indoctrination via peer pressure and an official group. Father Christmas is going to put a penis under the tree for you and I (eek!) braved a sex shop to buy a harness for you so your fake (age/size appropriate!) penis won’t fall on the bathroom floor!”

Fucking hell. I am just fucking beyond rage. This is so utterly monstrous

That is interesting Barbarian. I agree. Mothers are perhaps easier to manipulate with the “ you have to support your child at all costs” line, because that has been seen as more their role than a father’s.
I also think some of these mothers fall into Munchausens territory, and enjoy the attention and sympathy a trans child brings. They feel special.

We now live in a society where if your child tells you they hate their body and feel uncomfortable in themselves, you are supposed to say "Of course, that makes sense, let's try to fix your body" rather than "You are perfect just the way you are".

Anyone encouraging their child to believe that their body is 'wrong' is a straight up abuser. Even worse is putting that idea in their heads to start off with.

I saw this stuff years ago. It has been going on for a long time. These people are sick.

In recent years we've seen this stuff starting to infiltrate whole families.

It starts with one child per family but I've started reading about families with multiple trans siblings or a parent and child combo and it the most extreme cases the entire family, both parents and all kids have become trans.

It's nuts.

Look at those messages. That's why mothers are caught up as the primary drivers - we are the default caregiver, faced with incessant pressure from before we even conceive to do what is best, and by many different voices claiming authority.

Each of those threads of messages are women conditioned to acquiesce to a crowd. They have all started from different points, but all have been skewed onto a trajectory that has taken them far away from responsible parenting.

It's a combination of peer pressure, giving certain strong characters authority, and a desire for a sense of admiration from others for themselves.

I think mums are in general more likely to advocate for their children.
It's always been mostly dads who chuck their sons out or disown them because they're gay.
And the mums sticking up for them.
It could be an exaggerated extension of that.

It would be really interesting to know, whether there is a pattern in which children this is done to.

I am thinking specifically about some of the best known examples, where the mother of 3-4 boys decides that the youngest is a girl.
Of course that may be coincidence, and a sample size of three families doesn’t really tell us much, but it is concerning if this is indeed a pattern.

Another disturbing factor is that when a child is put on blockers, moving on to cross sex hormones, their brains do not mature, and they will in some respects remain mummys baby for ever. I am not really suggesting that the mothers know this and are doing it for that reason, but transing your youngest does make that child more closely bound to the mother, producing a very enmeshed relationship between mother and child, that is very unhealthy, but appealing to some mothers, perhaps especially wrg youngest children.

I believe there is some research that suggests (although obviously not conclusively) that there might be a link between male homosexuality/GNC traits and a having number of older brothers.

This is the case with my 3 DS's the youngest is very much GNC the older two not all. Of course anecdata is not data and all that.

I think there was some science behind it - something to do with conditions in the womb/maternal hormones after multiple male births.

Of course the environmental factors of many mothers wanting child no 3 to be a girl could also be at play. In my case I had a daughter first before the 3 boys so never gave much thought to the sex of the last two.

Falls down in the case of SG though, as I believe that J is her eldest child, followed by two or three other boys.

Those mothers are congratulating each other for being special, brave and stunning.

Many of those children will struggle to live independently later: their real mental health issues are not being tackled, they are medicalised, they rely on their parent enabling them to have the correct identity.

The mother becomes special not boring; the child is bound to her very very tightly.

I bet we all know underachiever angry women who manipulate and live through their children, albeit at lesser levels than these abusive parents. I tend to thing of them as kind of the incels of the mothering world. I can imagine some I know getting caught up in / groomed into this stuff.

Not incidentally, 4thWaveNow also mention in the comments that Jazz Jennings' mother is a moderator on this forum.

Strewth. Any vestige of empathy I might have had for that woman has now fucking died.

The mother becomes special not boring; the child is bound to her very very tightly.

I read a survey, a few years ago, about the profiling of the parents of trans children.

The mother was often someone who had been fairly successful, even the breadwinnner, but when motherhood arrived, they found themselves unlistened to and unimportant.

It was speculated that it was a way to become pivotal, important, and listened to, once more.