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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is the penis doing the pap smear?? No?? Then SHUT THE FUCK UP transphobe

200 replies

Lolasaurous · 09/03/2019 17:04

mobile.twitter.com/Indy_Leya/status/1103762317613953041

Rachel McKinnon

Is the penis doing the pap smear?? No?? Then SHUT THE FUCK UP transphobe
OP posts:
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8
BertrandRussell · 10/03/2019 15:54

What I want to know- and which nobody can ever answer, is how the trans women are women dictum gained so much traction so quickly. So many old fashioned and conservative institutions have bought it wholesale. Who’s behind it? Cui bono?

BickerinBrattle · 10/03/2019 15:58

The people who benefit are all those who benefit by the destruction of a legally protected class.

ColeHawlins · 10/03/2019 16:00

What I want to know- and which nobody can ever answer, is how the trans women are women dictum gained so much traction so quickly. So many old fashioned and conservative institutions have bought it wholesale. Who’s behind it? Cui bono?

Misogynistic men and misogynistic organisations (looking at you Stonewall).
Spread via social media, social contagion, credulous woke folk who don't have the critical faculties to discern the difference between the TRA creed and wider identity politics.
Deep fear of being deemed bigoted or prejudiced in any way.
Uncritical, out of their depths E&D leads in business and public sector.
Resulting in Emperor's New Clothes Syndrome.

Have you really had trouble getting an answer to that?

MillytantForceit · 10/03/2019 16:02

DAvd Cameron made equal marriage a cornerstone of his reform of the Conservative Party. There was certainly some pushback.

He also wheeled on (almost literally) Camilla Batmanghelidjh and told the conference representatives that this was the sort of person they needed to listen to.

ColeHawlins · 10/03/2019 16:04

Cui bono?

Fetishists (AGP)
Narcissists
Failed Male athletes
Failed men
Misogynists

Handay · 10/03/2019 16:29

Agree that it's the narcs who led the charge, then everyone wants to be nice. Also, amidst all the hostile wokeness there is a recognizable strand of men who enjoy telling women to shut up, and what better way to hide this than protecting the vulnerable.

Doyoumind · 10/03/2019 16:43

I don't know how McKinnon's employer can justify allowing this to continue.

Is the penis doing the pap smear?? No?? Then SHUT THE FUCK UP transphobe
Doyoumind · 10/03/2019 16:44

And what does this even mean?

Is the penis doing the pap smear?? No?? Then SHUT THE FUCK UP transphobe
Bowlofbabelfish · 10/03/2019 16:48

I don't know how McKinnon's employer can justify allowing this to continue.

Just imagine a hypothetical situation: if you weren’t sure you were going to get tenure. Then imagine you could deliberately goad the institution into not granting tenure, then sue using being transgender as a protected characteristic.

Win win. They either don’t want to have the hassle and you get tenure or you get to sue and possibly get tenure and a payout. Kerchiiiiing!

hackmum · 10/03/2019 17:48

Cole: "Misogynistic men and misogynistic organisations (looking at you Stonewall)."

I think you're putting the cart before the horse there. I don't think that historically Stonewall is misogynistic. Even if you see it as mainly an organisation to promote the rights of gay men rather than lesbians, gay men as a group don't have anything in particular to gain from eroding women's rights. I think Stonewall's deep devotion to the cause of trans rights can largely be explained by money.

I think that Bertrand is right to ask the question. The idea that trans women are women, and that there should be huge sums of money poured into training organisations to support the rights of trans women to occupy women's spaces, women's sports, women's changing rooms etc. is a fairly recent one, and I'd like to know how it gained so much traction so quickly. Someone is benefiting from this.

FermatsTheorem · 10/03/2019 17:52

Win win. They either don’t want to have the hassle and you get tenure or you get to sue and possibly get tenure and a payout. Kerchiiiiing!

Depressing but probably true. Sad Angry (Especially angry as a former academic who knows how hard it is for normal people to get tenure through trying to publish stuff in good faith that they believe to be academically defensible).

TimeLady · 10/03/2019 18:02

I've seen it suggested that sex discrimination cases will be harder to defend if sex is no longer a protected characteristic. And then they'll go after race as a protected characteristic next.

Cui bono? Businesses and corporations.

BlackForestCake · 10/03/2019 18:09

Where are the international corporations, banks, politicians shouting about including disabled people, the unemployed, refugees, the homeless?

Handay · 10/03/2019 18:09

Actually that's a point. The drive for rugged individualism is always a handy one for employers cf everybody being told that unions are outdated and we can all negotiate our wages most successfully ourselves ... and then ending up with zero hours contracts and the gig economy.

FermatsTheorem · 10/03/2019 18:12

We did have a lawyer on here who said that fortunately the UK's equal ops legislation is better drafted than that in the US. You don't have to show that all and only women are affected (which is what screwed women in the US: the existence of 1 transman breast feeding was enough to produce a loophole to legally allow discrimination against breast feeding women); in the UK you just have to show that one sex is disproportionately affected.

Here's hoping their interpretation was right.

MillytantForceit · 10/03/2019 18:13

Speaking as a shitbag, I downloaded "the science, ethics and law," and it turned out to be a highly polemic paper by can-you-guess-who?

The problem with it is the poor dear author and collaborator seem not to grasp what CAS actually is, falsely characterising it as a 'supreme authority' that acts upon its own precedents.

It is, rather, as the name strongly implies, a quasi-judicial arbitration tribunal in which both sides agree to participate where there is a dispute.

To take some examples, CAS has no authority over Bosman, Kolpak and other ECJ rulings over eligibility and participation, USADA's BALCO investigation, the FBI's designation of FIFA as a collaborator with organised crime nor the subsequent federal Swiss prosecutions, et bleedin cetera.

As anyone who's done so much as an undergraduate module on international law knows, i.e, me, the whole sodding point of International Law is there is no supreme authority save the United Nations where the General Assembly's powers are extremely circumscribed and in practice of little value (see recent ruling on UK and Diego Garcia) or the Security Council where the P5 will use their vetoes to stop anything that affects their interests or those of their friends.

Pile of piffle. IOC can look at it again if they wish, on the basis of such evidence as comes to light.

BickerinBrattle · 10/03/2019 18:15

McK might not have all that strong a legal position in the States. Though they might’ve aiming for Martyrdom.

ColeHawlins · 10/03/2019 18:26

I think you're putting the cart before the horse there. I don't think that historically Stonewall is misogynistic. Even if you see it as mainly an organisation to promote the rights of gay men rather than lesbians, gay men as a group don't have anything in particular to gain from eroding women's rights. I think Stonewall's deep devotion to the cause of trans rights can largely be explained by money.

I meant the "new" Stonewall really, but also how the change happened.

There was a vacuum and momentary lack of direction after the rapid legalisation gay marriage caught everyone unawares. Plus money - large unused fighting funds. Then the TRAs sauntered on from the sidelines.

I think it was more that several things coincided than it being a matter of either cart/horse or horse/cart per se.

I think that Bertrand is right to ask the question.

I'm just surprised she thinks it hasn't been answered.

ColeHawlins · 10/03/2019 18:30

Someone is benefiting from this.

Sometimes people really are acting mainly for ideological and/or personal gain. It isn't always about big bucks.

DoctoressPlague · 10/03/2019 18:31

which is what screwed women in the US: the existence of 1 transman breast feeding was enough to produce a loophole to legally allow discrimination against breast feeding women

What's this about? I've missed it.

BickerinBrattle · 10/03/2019 18:41

That’s not exactly what happened in that case. The note about men being able love acetate was just that, a note added to the decision. The decision actually rested on procedural elements: whether or not the claimant had used the right procedures for making a grievance, etc.

My lawyer friend in the US says that AMerican discrimination law does look at disproportionate burden. The thing is, if the US Equality Act s passed, TW will actually be the same as women in all respects in law. And TM will be actually the same as men in law. So then, yes, both sexes will be capable of breastfeeding. So no, one sex won’t be disproportionately burdened by breastfeeding restrictions.

BickerinBrattle · 10/03/2019 18:42

Able love acetate?! Able to lactate!

DoctoressPlague · 10/03/2019 18:50

Ah ok, thanks Bickerin, I found it now. Love your autocorrect!

FermatsTheorem · 10/03/2019 18:52

Thanks Bickerin - I should have known I'd got an oversimplified version.

Justhadathought · 10/03/2019 18:59

I'm just surprised she thinks it hasn't been answered.

I think many of us don't really think it has been answered with any specificity, rather than with generalised ideas, theories & sentiments.

My 'theory' goes along the line of American academia ( see Pritzker foundation) and big pharma. The Pritzker foundation funds gender dysphoria clinics, academic institutions, and organisations such as Stonewall. Tagging along behind are the fetishists and the paedophiles who lives revolve around their predilections.

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