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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Tavistock’s Experimentation with Puberty Blockers: Scrutinizing the Evidence

405 replies

Pimmsnlemonade · 05/03/2019 22:51

www.transgendertrend.com/tavistock-experiment-puberty-blockers/

"To summarize, GIDS launched a study to administer experimental drugs to children suffering from gender dysphoria. Between 2010 and 2014, puberty blockers were given to 50 children. This study yielded only one published scientific article on outcomes. It showed no evidence for the effectiveness of GnRHa: there was no statistically significant difference in psychosocial functioning between the group given blockers and the group given only psychological support. In addition, there is unpublished evidence that after a year on GnRHa children reported greater self-harm, and that girls experienced more behavioural and emotional problems and expressed greater dissatisfaction with their body—so puberty blockers exacerbated gender dysphoria. Yet the study has been used to justify rolling out this drug regime to several hundred children aged under 16. Almost five years after the last patient was enrolled in the experiment, there is no evidence to substantiate Carmichael’s claim ‘that the results thus far have been positive’."

OP posts:
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hoodathunkit · 08/03/2019 11:16

<a class="break-all" href="https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HEs-SUDndBUJ:thebowlbycentre.org.uk/ritual-abuse-and-mind-control-the-manipulation-of-attachment-needs/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HEs-SUDndBUJ:thebowlbycentre.org.uk/ritual-abuse-and-mind-control-the-manipulation-of-attachment-needs/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari

NeurotrashWarrior · 08/03/2019 11:34

Jesus.

hoodathunkit · 08/03/2019 11:49

Some people of interest, I would prefer that readers did a bit of research themselves re this. The ruth is so disturbing and insane that people may only understand it if they discover things for themselves

  1. Brett Kahr - involved with Confer, Valerie Sinason, Batmanghelidjh and others. Loved by some influential people at the BBC where he has worked as a presenter on at least one documentary also pops up on Radio 4 a lot

The School of Life profile via archive
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150310035528/www.theschooloflife.com/london/about-us/faculty-and-staff/k-o/kahr-brett/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20150310035528/www.theschooloflife.com/london/about-us/faculty-and-staff/k-o/kahr-brett/

  1. Susan Quilliam - involved with seriously dodgy organisations including the Outsiders - an organisation set up by PIE advocate Tuppy Owens also you can see her in this extremely concerning organisation - via the archive as now defunct
www.baseuk.org/static.aspx?pg=AdvisoryBoard&m=aboutus" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20130427065018/www.baseuk.org/static.aspx?pg=AdvisoryBoard&m=aboutus

The School of Life profile here
<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20150115053224/www.theschooloflife.com/london/about-us/faculty-and-staff/p-t/quilliam-susan" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20150115053224/www.theschooloflife.com/london/about-us/faculty-and-staff/p-t/quilliam-susan

hoodathunkit · 08/03/2019 11:50

Alert readers will find a lot to occupy / interest them in that archived link to the BaseUK website

:(

DoctoressPlague · 08/03/2019 12:04

So it looks like at least one journalist is following this up with the Tavi.

I hope it's Gilligan.

YY, I hope Andrew Gilligan is also working on a piece. The Times has broader reach than the Telegraph in terms of political divides.

hoodathunkit · 08/03/2019 12:21

Re the BaseUK website

Here's one easy connection

Rachel Foux BA (hons) BASRT (Assoc), MAC, APPPAH

as appears on the BaseUK website now calls herself Rachel Gold and can be found advertising her "services" on interesting websites such as this

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20181202162044/southwesttantra.co.uk/partners.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20181202162044/southwesttantra.co.uk/partners.php

this is her new site

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20180902180401/rachelgold.co.uk/sex-courses.php" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20180902180401/rachelgold.co.uk/sex-courses.php

also of interest is the Porterbrook Clinic in Sheffield

One of their therapist's fb page

www.facebook.com/cassandra.lorius.3

She works with this interesting chap

Bowlofbabelfish · 08/03/2019 12:31

Quiliam... that name really rings a bell for something else. I will try and remember.

plattercake has just made a great point in a PM to me, which is that the oestrogens, in and of themselves, have effects on mental health. Anecdotally I think a lot of us see this with side effects of contraception, but a quick poke around the literature shows that oestrogens seem to have multiple effects (often protective) in mental health issues.

So we need to ask ourselves: what effect does blocking oestrogen have in a child experiencing a mental health issue?

This whole issue is huge. It’s quite clear there are multiple links to all sorts of players. It’s a huge scandal.

Public inquiry. Now.

hoodathunkit · 08/03/2019 12:35

Martin Jelfs the "tantric healer" who works extensively with Porterbrook clinic therapist Cassadra Lorius has been advertising on the extremely dodgy tantralink website for many years under the name Shivoham

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20101028163702/www.tantralink.com/tantra-therapists-and-practitioners/shivoham/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20101028163702/www.tantralink.com/tantra-therapists-and-practitioners/shivoham/

The tantralink website also used to advertise the Secret Ceres (jamu stick) and made illegal claims about it being suitable for treating vaginal infections

<a class="break-all" href="https://web.archive.org/web/20101106135635/www.tantralink.com/products-secret-ceres" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">web.archive.org/web/20101106135635/www.tantralink.com/products-secret-ceres

hoodathunkit · 08/03/2019 12:37

Quiliam... that name really rings a bell for something else. I will try and remember

You may be thinking of the Quilliam Foundation an anti-extremist organisation? I am not sure whether there is a familial link

BettyDuMonde · 08/03/2019 13:55

And conversely, what effect does medicating a teenage boy with oestrogen have? Could the relief described by those recently prescribed female cross sex hormones really be oestrogen’s effect on undiagnosed anxiety/depression?

plattercake · 08/03/2019 14:00

I can see that the Tavistock have been hugely negligent in their research, it is very obviously so, and am not defending them at all but re recent posts I don't doubt for a moment that there has been some very dodgy stuff going on in too many places, but it is an accepted theory/finding that adults with PTSD (eg combat veterans) etc do have/develop changes in the volume of the hippocampus related to prolonged stress and trauma, so to me, to look for whether children who have been severely traumatised have similar effects, in principle does not seem to be wrong or strange. How they do that is another issue, and I don't have the info on that aspect.

I will say now that I am a bit out of the loop on info with some of the specific people mentioned in recent posts, but I think my points stand in principle.

Batmanghelidjh said "Most of us are only programmed to be frightened for short periods without getting some relief. But the 1.5 million children who are abused and neglected every year in the UK are actually being frightened chronically without rest or relief. The consequence is often disturbed behaviours and violence.

"If the maltreatment of children is altering their developmental pathways then we are not dealing with children who are morally flawed. The public perception is that these children are just like anyone else until they come to the point of doing something bad. Then the public decides these children have made a thought-through decision, when the vast majority will not have thought at all - their violence was almost instinctive." www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2010/jun/ucl-scientists-research-effect-fright-brain

This to me says that the intention is to look at whether the MH effects on children are similar way to women who have been abused long term, similar to the maddening and devastating effects of gaslighting and prolonged periods of jeopardy and dread, and whether that is reflected in brain scans (no doubt in part so that people who have experienced abuse can have say look there is proof that I am struggling with something real, I'm not imagining my messed up MH).

Suggesting/saying that prolonged trauma and stress can result in can make a person reactive, emotionally dysregulated, hypervigilant etc, and that can be 'programmed in' to a person, warping their overall character traits and reactions to what it might have been had they grown up in a loving and stable environment, resulting in MH issues such as, PTSD, cPTSD, Borderline Personality Disorder etc is not controversial to me. Neglect and abuse (both a kind of torture) changes people, and more so in situations where there are multiple stress factors. I am not any kind of woo believer at all. Very far from it.

To me, looking at that aspect of learned behaviour/ reactions has nothing to do with any claims that 'bad behaviour' is then either inevitable or completely excusable (in that there is no responsibility at all), it merely shows that there are effects. What happens next is still to happen, brain plasticity and working at triggers and responses can help to a greater or lesser extent depending.

These issues in my view should be addressed by helping a person to face and overcome their MH and behavioural issues, understanding what has happended to them and how to get better, to try to undo the harm caused re-write the damaged learning, not have an approach that reifies and validates maladaptive coping strategies or gives unquestioning affirmation etc eg as with transitioning.

It suggests to me that so much more money needs to be out into MH are if we want to make any meaningful changes to the behaviours we see all across society. (and we need quality boundaried and sane MH professionals but that is another issue)

To me it is treatment strategies (and some practitioners) maybe more than the diagnoses that have had the very serious flaws (that is a big issue)

Some of these people and centres actually started out with the intention of bringing recognition to sufferers of child abuse, and exposing the (many) groups of powerful men who systematically abused children and the harm they have done.

I now I also know that well coordinated entryism exists to pervert the cause and aims of an organisation, thanks to the TRAs, the MRAs and the examination of their strategies exposed on this board. So I find it interesting how the Tavi has turned out.

My own feeling has always been that a key 'benefit' of the unquestioning affirmation approach is in protecting those people who may have abused or neglected children whether by sexual abuse, psychological abuse or by some kind narcissism/ Münchhausen type situation. Not all children suffering gender issues will have been abused of course, but I have no doubt that many have been,as well as the obvious hideous pressure of gender stereotyping on girls.

I feel that just as we have been making some progress with women's rights, MeToo etc, we have the MRA/TRA backlash, and similarly and not coincidentally that as we make some progress with exposing child sexual abuse, increasing safeguarding for children, deeper investigations etc, I think there is the backlash (fight back might be a better word) to this too. We have the multiple Girl Guide safeguarding issues; young children being exposed to and exploited in heavily sexualised sitautions in drag clubs, drag queen story times, McK's enticing children to the glitter family etc etc.

Some perverted people (men) will have an interest in all of these negative outcomes for children; adults in bodies that have not undergone puberty; distressed children growing into aduts who have had no real investigation into their emotional health and who may remain trapped in magical thinking and self blame, vulnerability; the widespread attempts to normalise of kinks and fetishes. The Edward Lords and Dr Megs.

You can call me paranoid, but I do not think any of these things are coincidental.

I think that this entryism and fucking perverts and their flying monkeys getting into positions of power and influence, and science and psychology, is (obviously) a massive, massive problem.

I have no doubt that there will be people in the midst of this whose very purpose is to throw doubt onto people who are doing good work with sufferers of CSA and trauma, and it makes it very difficult sometimes to see who is on the 'right' side and who is actually helping children and abuse survivors.

I do think for years people who have suffered child CSA, and those who have wanted to help them, have been subject to very similar kinds of discrediting and gaslighting meted out to women and to women who have suffered domestic violence, and rape in particular, but also they experience this on a coordinated societal level, in keeping with the reach and influence of paedophile rings, the control being exerted in a similar but slightly different way to the use of prevailing misogyny to allow abusive men to continue abusing. Who would have thought that adult nappy wearing 'furries' would be a fetish that a) exists, and that b) may be accepted, as c) it seems to be acceptable on Twitter.

Sorry for the long post. Had to get it out. Its a huge murky issue and I wish I had more capacity to read more about it , and to post the links that have led me to join all this up, which has led to me having so many questions and concerns.

Thank you Bowl for mentioning the oestrogen issues re MH and girls being on puberty blockers. Its so worrying. Blocking could actually be making them more unstable. I got my shit together (I hope) prompted by recent posts.

silentcrow · 08/03/2019 14:04

Quiliam... that name really rings a bell for something else. I will try and remember.

You'll have seen her in various newspapers and magazines as an agony aunt, probably around the early 2000s, plus she "reworked" The Joy of Sex and wrote a number of books for teenagers on growing up.

plattercake · 08/03/2019 14:06

Yes, Betty was thinking the same. As with older males perhaps, stabilising an undiagnosed/ denied MH condition. Of course this would likely not be enough if the symptoms are severe or complex.

BettyDuMonde · 08/03/2019 14:14

New interview Benjamin Boyce interview with Jamie Shupe here Plattercake - might be of interest to you.

Shupe is regularly denounced as being mad (and therefore ignorable) by TRAs and certainly cheerfully admits his many mental health issues - the fact remains that mental health issues are going undiagnosed and in some cases, this results in unwarranted transition.

Even if truely trans people exist, and transition does help them live full and happy lives, how can we continue with the affirmative/ ‘informed’ consent care models, knowing that people are transitioning mistakenly?

BettyDuMonde · 08/03/2019 14:15

Link: m.youtube.com/watch?v=0l-b7Ke8qBk

plattercake · 08/03/2019 15:24

Re investigations into child sexual abuse, I can report the fact that a criminologist brought in to consult on Operation Conifer (investigating Ted Heath), was instrumental in closing down the investigation when they asserted that the allegations of SRA made by 2 alleged victms were “a catalogue of fabrication”, “fantastical”, and "pernicious fallacy".

This crimiologist is one Dr Rachel Hoskins, who was until very recently then (2016) Dr Richard Hoskins, made famous by the body in the Thames murder of a young boy, on which he became an 'expert' after writing a book.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/nov/27/ted-heath-police-child-abuse-inquiry-fantastical-evidence
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/26/sir-edward-heath-sex-abuse-investigation-could-shut/

The claims made by the alleged victims were said to be delusional and based on therapist malpractice, but Richard can be Richard, then Rachel (and as Rachel wrote the report on Operation Conifer) and is now Richard again, and that seems to be perfectly unremarkable to the police, The Telegraph and the Guardian.

In Jan 2016, just prior to their transition, Hoskins wrote this piece in praise of Thai lady boys, where he seems to know the harms of gender but also says that focusing on biological sex is reductionist, and seems to believe it is irrelevant.

www.goodreads.com/author_blog_posts/9669968-gender-are-you-sure-you-know

But you know, Hoskins own psychology is unremarkable and seen as reliable.

As I said upthread, all very murky and complex. Lots to google.

Thank you for the link Betty just going to watch it now.

LangCleg · 08/03/2019 15:34

Thank you for bringing to my attention the connection between the Kids Company brain scan study and Tavi & Port, hoodathunkit.

Here she is in 2006, testifying to the Home Affairs Committee at the House of Commons about black single mothers:

I actually think the mothers are hugely responsible because they have created a culture where they can get rid of the adolescent boy. They can get rid of the male partner, they can survive on their own.

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6080096.stm

Whatever the truth about the possible effects of childhood abuse on the brain, I do not believe the Kids Company study was looking to show that. It seemed to me that it was looking to show that black women's existence as independent mothers caused brain abnormalities in their male children.

Using low income single mothers as society's punching bag is about as regressive as you can get.

I find it highly disturbing to discover that Tavi & Port was connected to all this. Especially in the light of Michael Biggs's current research on its involvement in the latest fad for intervening in the lives of healthy children.

hoodathunkit · 08/03/2019 15:47

@plattercake

re Richard Hoskins

His concerns about deluded and fantastical accusations against Ted Heath are completely valid.

Also see

barthsnotes.com/2017/04/23/police-consulted-dissociative-identity-disorder-therapist-in-ted-heath-abuse-probe/

We should be careful about posting too much about "nick" aka Carl Beech here as it could be contempt of court. However I have a ton of information about this issue and am biting my tongue

False accusations of satanic ritual abuse are a favourite subject for me and something I have 1st hand experience of, both in terms of contact with SRA believing therapists and vulnerable people with false memories.

Hoskins is a highly reputable authority on witchcraft / kindoki accusations and religious crimes in Africa

I do not know him personally and do not understand why he, for some time, referred to himself as Rachel.

I understand that Hoskins suffered terrible traumas in his life and that he may have, at some point, sought therapy for PTSD. This does not make him a perpetrator or one of the bad guys.

One thing I am very clear about and I think we should all be aware of is the risk of starting our own witch hunts where we target innocent people rather than perpetrators.

Also it is possible to agree with Hoskins about some things but to disagree with him about others.

I just read the article you linked to. He is questioning the idea of gender which I think is not so bad is it? He also states

"Ironically it’s sometimes those who transition who can be the most absolute in their gender categorisations. I’ve experienced MtF’s describe those who don’t go through with full gender reassignment as ‘traitors.’ This undoes the whole fluidity of gender with which they have been cast. But it’s ever thus with those who convert to anything. They can be the most absolutist fanatics."

Is this so unreasonable?

hoodathunkit · 08/03/2019 15:54

Hoskins also says
"Gender is complex. It is certainly more complex that the simplistic M or F designations and it’s about time the West bucked its ideas up about this. I would like to see Britain lead the way in adopting a T (trans) category, so that those who identify somewhere between M (male) and F (female) can be recognised as such. "

I think we do need a separate category, not least of all for all the children who are born intersex and who years ago would have been surgically altered.

I do not really care how people identify or how their genitals look, my concerns are

  1. the erosion of women's safe spaces, everything from ponds to toilets and prisons
  2. social engineering
  3. the abuse and experimentation on children
NeurotrashWarrior · 08/03/2019 15:56

Very reasonable hood. PTSD was my first thought.

plattercake · 08/03/2019 16:00

also this www.goodreads.com/author/show/1358909.Richard_Hoskins/blog

At the time of the Operation Conifer report was leaked to the press, Hoskins wrote My earliest memory, aged 4, is reaching on tiptoes into the airing cupboard and pulling down my sister’s undies. When I stepped into them I felt a visceral surge of ‘rightness.’

He then tried to self medicate with female hormones aged 15.

In the above post (November 2016) he says he has been under the knife 'down there', but on Twitter etc he is known as Richard again.

I just find it interesting how Hoskins is automatically believed and accepted and remains authoritative if he wants to 'be a woman' since the trans ideaology has made progress, yet other aspects of psychology and claims of ritual abuse (which Hoskins says does happen in Africa) are claimed by him and some others to be outlandish hokum. Hoskins said ‘The Heath inquiry rests, like the Westminster VIP inquiry, on over-active imagination.’

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3974750/A-satanic-injustice-Police-warned-Edward-Heath-ritual-child-abuse-claims-fantasy-ploughing-700-000-probe.html

Tavistock’s Experimentation with Puberty Blockers: Scrutinizing the Evidence
hoodathunkit · 08/03/2019 16:03

Also, make no mistake, social engineering is happening right now

Anyone who is able to testify against very real abuses and atrocities risks being neutralised (brainwashed) by quack therapists and subjected to ridicule.

I mean this man seemed to be someone with a conscience and then all of a sudden it all got very David Icke

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1200089/Call-Delores-says-MI5-whistleblower-David-Shayler.html

hoodathunkit · 08/03/2019 16:08

@plattercake

Hoskins does not say that children or adults are never abused in rituals

I would never make such a claim either. I know of many disgusting cults where children and vulnerable adults are abused using ceremony as a cover for their activities.

The abuse that Hoskins quite rightly refutes is the "satanic ritual abuse" beloved of David Icke, QAnon, etc. that quacks like Valerie Sinason, Rachel C Thomas, the late Alan Corbett, Brett Kahr, Phil Mollon, Vera Diamond and various other deranged quacks promote. The fact that many of these people have demonstrable links to the Tavi and / or to the ISSTD is worthy of further inquiry.

plattercake · 08/03/2019 16:14

Nothing I have posted means that I think the Tavi aren't massively culpable in harming children and girls re transing and GID.

I am horrifed if it is the case that Batmanghieldih was mis-using scientific study and concern for traumatised children to fit her own agenda.

I think we all have to so vigilant in looking at who is who and doing what and that is what MN FWR is fantastic for I think I'm putting the info out there so others can read for themselves. Its all part of the picture.

As far as I can gather, Hoskins only became an expert after living in Africa as a missionary after studying theology at Oxford and then becoming involved that case.

Its about who gets to be the authority, who is right, whose judgement is safe and whose is not, what do we know about people. And how hard it can be to judge who is getting it right, what is really going on.

MN FWR is the sunlight.

hoodathunkit · 08/03/2019 16:17

Speaking of Vera Diamond (deceased) one of the early promoters of SRA conspiracy theories in the UK and a past director of the UKCP

beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/WLo2AgFrZpJhbO7ZDuN3ubH4SQI/appointments

Diamond was closely involved in the Tavi

barthsnotes.com/2011/11/23/bogus-satanic-ritual-abuse-accusation-resulted-in-another-tragedy/

video of her here

Unsurprisingly, and this is important, her husband Malcolm Carruthers was censured by the GMC for prescribing testosterone to a patient without a proper consultation
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1123632/

there is money to be made prescribing hormones it seems

Carruthers is still promoting the "male menopause" and prescribing testosterone however hopefully he has learned that he at least needs to see patients in person first

Swipe left for the next trending thread