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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bloody hell BBC

563 replies

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 05/03/2019 07:06

Reading the BBC news online this morning and there is not one, but two stories about transgender people. One promoting the transition of a small child, and the other promoting sport for transgender athletes. The latter in particular looks like a direct attempt to counter the news discussion over the last few days in sport.

This isn’t news, it’s wartime propaganda.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
Ihaventgottimeforthis · 06/03/2019 18:44

So Sarah why do you think girls shouldn't have to share toilets with trans girls using urinals?
Boys have bathrooms with urinals, if trans girls really are just girls, then surely girls should be ok with other girls using urinals, just as boys are ok with boys using urinals.
Honestly, I would also prefer the idea of individual toilet cubicles for everyone as my DD even in primary doesn't like using the toilets as the doors are too short, and boys come in and laugh.
But the principle applies - girls deserve privacy from boys and their bodies, even if those boys feel like they are girls.

RiverTam · 07/03/2019 10:07

Sarah 'cis' is not allowed on MN, can you not use it please? Thanks.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 08/03/2019 15:13

got a reply from my complaint to the BBC. You'll be surprised to learn that they feel it's a-OK to invade the privacy of a 9 year old boy on the say so of his frankly unhinged sounding mother

His mum's milking the publicity so why shouldn't we jump on the bandwagon, basically. totally missing the point that Autumn is not competent to consent to this sort of laying his private life wide open

poor, poor Autumn Sad

Thank you for getting in touch about our feature article entitled Raising a transgender child: 'Don't you think Autumn is happier?' (www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-47360102)

We are always mindful of the sensitivities involved in any story which potentially raises issues around safeguarding children, which we always carefully consider before we would ever take the decision to identify a child through our journalism.

However I think the key point is that the piece was written and published with the full knowledge and consent of Autumn’s mother, Fran Norris, and in accordance with the BBC’s Editorial Guidelines.

The wider background to their story is that Autumn:

…has identified as a girl for the past two years, after telling her mother she felt she was in the "wrong body"

People know about it at her school, amongst her school friends and in the town where they live and beyond.

As we also point out in the piece, Fran Norris plans to write a book about their "emotional journey", to clear up "misinformation" about the process and how it affects children and their families.

So her identity and life as a transgender child is not a secret and we are entitled to rely on parental consent in telling this story.

We hope you will find this response useful and thank you once again for getting in touch.

EcclesThePeacock · 08/03/2019 15:21

So her identity and life as a transgender child is not a secret and we are entitled to rely on parental consent in telling this story.

Maybe they should rely on concepts such as 'journalistic integrity' and 'public interest' a bit more.Hmm

Mummyoflittledragon · 09/03/2019 04:45

It sounds like a sick conspiracy from where there is no recourse. I read this as “the mother isn’t going to safeguard the child so neither will we”. Not social services, the police, the government... an empty vacuum and a time bomb waiting to go off.

NeurotrashWarrior · 09/03/2019 06:59

This twitter thread has some excellent points about the complicit lies fed to lgbt youth who then have to deal with the damage done to their bodies when they detransition.

The anger is heartbreaking

twitter.com/exitsign_/status/1103987266807087105?s=21

RepealTheGRA · 09/03/2019 07:00

Perhaps ‘Autumn’s’ mother should be reported to NSPCC? I realise they too have been brainwashed but if they start taking reports on this it might make them think?

NeurotrashWarrior · 09/03/2019 07:05

From that twitter,

I have no time for people who ask 'why do you have to be such a terf because you detransitioned'. I'm a big terf because trans ideology stole several years of my life, fucked up my relationship with my sexuality and then when I had doubts, I was excommunicated from my community.

The movement that sold this to me, a teenage lesbian already under the weight of homophobia, were bad people. They failed in their duty to properly analyse the ramifications for a kid like me and I wasn't able to do it myself bc I was a child. Fuck you guys. I deserved better.

NeurotrashWarrior · 09/03/2019 07:09

A reply from another detransitioned woman: @catt_bear

When it come to detransitioners, this isn’t a war of ideas, this is about real harm done to our bodies, our money, our psyches, our careers, our relationships, and I’m going to keep being angry until there’s both change to prevent harm and efforts to make the victims whole.

BrizzleMint · 09/03/2019 07:11
  •   <strong><a class="break-all" href="https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The NHS says most treatment</a>t</strong> at this stage is psychological and not surgical, because the majority of children with suspected gender dysphoria do not have the condition once they reach puberty
      It says a child refusing to wear typical boys' or girls' clothes is usually just part of growing up, although for those with gender dysphoria this will continue into adulthood
    

I think this is what parents of young transgender children should take note of. How many us would, in today's climate, be pushed down the transgender route? I know I would have been.

FrangipaniBlue · 09/03/2019 07:16

Thought on the plus side, i now relieved to know I am an actual woman because I use two towels after the shower - one for my body and one for my hair “like a woman”.

So does DH........ he's bald........

Do you think he's trying to subconsciously tell me something? Confused

Lamaha · 09/03/2019 08:15

shutting down conversation with your child who's experiencing gender dysphoria and saying no darling you can't transition is only going to make them feel a lot worse.

It was great that in the late 50's, when I was a girl who longed to be a boy, all this shit was unheard of. My mother was very liberal. She actually added a middle name to my birth certificate so that I could be called Jo. I cut my hair short. I liked boys adventures etc. But I knew, I ALWAYS knew, that I could not become a boy.
Sarah, do not underestimate the ability of children to deal with facts, with truth. It's fine to tell them "no you can't', and actually helps them mature much better than pandering to their desires (Oh darling you can be anything you want, of course to can be a real boy/girl, we just have to pump you with hormones/cut off bits of your body!
Again: thank God these options were not available in the 50's. People tend to denigrate the 50's a lot but I have to say there was a lot more common sense around in those days.

ChattyLion · 09/03/2019 08:19

Flowers Betty to you and your daughter.

Lamaha · 09/03/2019 08:20

@BettyduMonde Flowers so sorry about your DD and lots of hugs.

Thanks for the great photos -- however, how could you forget the wonderful era of the hippies! I was one of them!

Bloody hell BBC
Bloody hell BBC
Bloody hell BBC
Datun · 09/03/2019 08:48

Lamaha

Look at the clothes those men are wearing, especially in the middle picture.

We had a transwoman on here once, who after hundreds and hundreds of posts, finally admitted the reason they wanted to transition was, as a woman, they felt they could be more 'vibrant'.

It doesn't get more vibrant than the (men's) clothing in that picture.

You've only got to look back at an 80s Top of the Pops, to see the difference. The make up, the hair, the blouson shirts, the dancing, the clothes. Far more colourful, feminine, dramatic, theatrical.

Lamaha · 09/03/2019 08:53

Yes and I have to say it was a great time, and we also 100% believed we were on the right side of history, and that in 20 years time the world would be this paradisaical place of Peace (no more war!) and Love (everyone had to be loved, even the corporate assholes!) and Harmony, and living in tune with nature (today that is called Sustainable Living and is very trendy so we weren't completely wrong!

But looked what happened to the rest of it. Believing you are on the Right Side of History doesn't mean that History (Reality) is going to comply.

Lamaha · 09/03/2019 08:57

As for gender-neutral toilets: I think that was the issue that first peaktransed me.
I do not want to share toilets with men, not even cubicles. The reason:
men can't help it: they splatter urine all over the floor. Its disgusting. And they never clean up after themselves; they leave it to the more pernickety females. And they leave the seats up.
It's bad enough in private homes (though a lot of German housewives train their sons to sit on the seat) but in a public lavatory? No thanks. I don't fancy stepping in the urine splatter of strange men. Get them out.
If girls and women don't want to share toilets they should not have to.

Lamaha · 09/03/2019 09:13

This is posted as a separate thread on this forum but it's relevant to some of Sarah's arguments.
gdworkinggroup.org/2018/10/24/the-gender-identity-phantom/

There is a concept defined called “gender identity” which has no physical presence and apparently can only be made known to the person in which it resides. Comprehensive gender affirmative therapy is a high risk, experimental therapy based on low quality evidence and represents a treatment for a condition which cannot be diagnosed by any doctor.

It's like something out of a dystopian novel. I can't believe it's really happening, promoted by governments, supported by the BBC and other mainstream media outlets.
We are going to look back in utter horror years and decades down the line.

Angryresister · 09/03/2019 09:26

So is the BBC actually ok with the abuse the boys now men abused by M.Jackson suffered because their mothers thought it was Ok at the time?

Trousering · 09/03/2019 10:19

mobile.twitter.com/catt_bear/status/1103994119154737153

This is abhorrent. Poor kids. This is BBC culture.

StrangeLookingParasite · 10/03/2019 22:17

Everybody permanently asking me to declare pronouns because I was butch, nobody ever mentioning the possibility that butch lesbians are fine the way they are.

This is just tragic. I love my butch sisters, just exactly as they are.
I've been non-conforming all my life, and I no longer (if I ever did) give a tinker's continental damn about people who have trouble with that.
I genuinely don't have a 'gender identity' as far as I'm aware.

I'm also sick to fucking death with being told we're 'transphobic' and saying the truth is bloody hate speech.

SarahH12 · 11/03/2019 19:35

why do you think girls shouldn't have to share toilets with trans girls using urinals?

Personally I'm not a fan of boys using urinals either so...

cis' is not allowed on MN, can you not use it please? Thanks.

Oh sorry is that part of the T&C of signing up to MN?

And they leave the seats up. can you not just put the seat down again?

Anyway I'm out. You can find arguments to support both sides. Personally I'm on the side of supporting those who are going through something as difficult as gender dysphoria and not being transphobic and backwards.

CaptainMarvelBunting · 11/03/2019 19:36

Oh sorry is that part of the T&C of signing up to MN?

Yes. HTH.

SarahH12 · 11/03/2019 19:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BickerinBrattle · 11/03/2019 19:42

Dysphoria is not a requirement for s trans identity. To say that it is or should be is considered transphobic.

HTH.