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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bloody hell BBC

563 replies

WorkingItOutAsIGo · 05/03/2019 07:06

Reading the BBC news online this morning and there is not one, but two stories about transgender people. One promoting the transition of a small child, and the other promoting sport for transgender athletes. The latter in particular looks like a direct attempt to counter the news discussion over the last few days in sport.

This isn’t news, it’s wartime propaganda.

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OldCrone · 21/03/2019 11:24

Sadly, Bernard, I think you could be right.

If a gender identity was described as being feminine or masculine, it would actually make more sense, as well as being more grammatically consistent. A man could be feminine or a woman masculine, but their sex clearly hasn't changed.

hoodathunkit · 21/03/2019 11:49

Very good video piece from the BBC re how a girl with anorexia became addicted to viewing and sharing anorexia themed images on Instagram

www.bbc.com/news/video_and_audio/headlines/47642860/my-anorexia-really-loved-instagram

If only the BBC could check out how children could run into similar problems re self-harming through viewing and sharing images re trans and non-binary issues on Instagram

A brief perusal of Instagram throws up multiple hashtags and accounts such as this one

www.instagram.com/transcendingself/?hl=en

I cannot understand how the BBC can be so astute to the potential for children being harmed when it comes to anorexia, cutting and other forms of self-harm but to be completely blinkered to the same themes when it comes to transgender issues

heresyisthenewblack · 21/03/2019 12:10

it just chimes with people's inerrant sexism, which is why it has gained so much traction

I think that's right. I consider the concept of transgenderism as quite a male response, actually.

Some thoughts.

So:
A person is deeply unhappy with their role in society, preferring to see themselves as the opposite sex.

A feminist looks at this. She has intimate knowledge of the oppression of women and the absolute garbage females have to put up with. Her answer is to get rid of gender and change society.

A male doctor looks at this. He is steeped in sexist gender stereotypes. Maybe it's the 1950s. He believes that there is no possible way a man could ever want to behave like or be treated as a woman, unless there was something deeply psychologically wrong. His answer is that there must be a serious medical condition at fault, which needs to be treated with hormones and surgery to make the person "look like" the opposite sex so they can fit in with society.

I think:
Feminist women respond to the problem of gender by saying, "there's nothing wrong with you, your body is beautiful, and you should express yourself however you like." Feminists try to get rid of gender: the roles, hierarchy and bullshit. Maybe because enough women can see the way females are harmed by gender. Probably every woman has had some form of "gender dysphoria," at some point been unhappy with the expectations placed on being a woman, the threat of male violence, the impact of society classifying you as the "second sex". So women instinctively feel the fault lies with the system, not the individual.

For whatever reason, I think some men instinctively respond to the challenge of what to do when someone is unhappy with gender in the opposite way. They come up with an idea that there's something wrong with the individual. So to them, permanent medical interventions to change an individual's body so that they can take on a different role in the existing oppressive system is the way forward. Maybe because men as a group aren't as unhappy, as many of these societal notions of gender actually seem to advantage them?

HawkeyeInConfusion · 21/03/2019 12:19

Thanks for that Pancaketosser

I tried asking that yesterday, apparently those individuals have a gender identity that is the same as their birth sex, despite their dysphoria and surgery

So if, as I believe to be the case, there is a push from activists to replace 'gender reassignment' and 'sex' from the Equality Act with 'gender identity', would that then mean that gender dysphoric transsexuals would no longer be protected by the act?

Or am I being too logical and/or cynical?

HawkeyeInConfusion · 21/03/2019 12:23

Good points heresy.

So as some males see male stereotypes as damaging to males (contributing to the high suicide rates, amongst other things), is there a chance men will start to see gender stereotypes in a more similar way to how women do - harmful.

OldCrone · 21/03/2019 12:37

I cannot understand how the BBC can be so astute to the potential for children being harmed when it comes to anorexia, cutting and other forms of self-harm but to be completely blinkered to the same themes when it comes to transgender issues

The BBC, like much of the rest of society, has been brainwashed into thinking being trans is a bit like being gay - something that people just 'are'. They haven't understood that young people thinking they're trans has much more in common with anorexia, which is people thinking there's something wrong with their body, which can spread through social contagion.

R0wantrees · 21/03/2019 12:41

They haven't understood that young people thinking they're trans has much more in common with anorexia, which is people thinking there's something wrong with their body, which can spread through social contagion.

I think there are parallels with the spread of Bulimia:

'The Strange, Contagious History of Bulimia'
By Lee Daniel Kravetz
(extract)
In 1972, a woman checked into London’s Royal Free Hospital to be treated for anorexia. “I found her symptoms to be unique,” Gerald Russell, the British psychologist who treated her, tells me. “They didn’t match the diagnostic criteria for anorexia at all.” Unlike his emaciated patients with sallow skin and big eyes, Russell’s new patient was of average weight. Her face was full. Her cheeks were pink as the skin of an onion. She was the first of roughly thirty instances of this unusual condition that crossed the threshold of his clinic over the next seven years, each person presenting with perplexing purging behaviors secondary to binge eating. Russell wasn’t dealing with anorexia nervosa, he realized, but something as yet undefined by psychology or medicine.

In fact, he had stumbled upon a condition that science had yet to see in large numbers or identify at any time in the long history of eating disorders. Psychological Medicine published Russell’s ensuing paper on these unusual cases; in it, he described the key features of this novel mental illness he was now referring to as bulimia nervosa. Many in the scientific community objected to Russell’s conclusions, pointing to the limited and problematic sample size he’d used. At the time, however, there were simply too few cases for Russell to draw from. The pool in the 1970s was just too small.

As bulimia gained further diagnostic legitimacy in 1980 with its inclusion in the third edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Russell ruefully tracked its unexpectedly swift spread across Europe and North America, where it infiltrated college campuses, affecting 15 percent of female students in sororities, all-women dormitories, and female collegiate sports teams. The disease moved through the halls of American high schools, where binging, fasting, diet pill use, and other eating disorder symptoms easily clustered. He chased its dispersion across Egypt, where the number of new cases grew to 400,000. In Canada, it swelled to 600,000. In Russia, 800,000. In India, 6 million. In China, 7 million. In the UK, one out of every one hundred women was now developing the disorder." (continues)

www.thecut.com/article/how-bulimia-became-a-medical-diagnosis.html

nauticant · 21/03/2019 12:47

The BBC as an institution seems to have a peculiar and problematic view of children. Almost as though it sees itself in some sense as the custodian of the nation's children. Add to that some very weird permissive views, that can embrace sex-related matters, and it all looks rather disturbing.

hoodathunkit · 21/03/2019 13:14

The BBC, like much of the rest of society, has been brainwashed into thinking being trans is a bit like being gay - something that people just 'are'. They haven't understood that young people thinking they're trans has much more in common with anorexia, which is people thinking there's something wrong with their body, which can spread through social contagion.

agreed, and also with other forms of self-harm, cutting etc.

There are a number of very interesting videos on youtube that demonstrate conformity / social contagion

A youtube search for conformity + experiment will bring up some interesting results

this is one of the best and is tangential to yet highly relevant to the trans issue IMHO

hoodathunkit · 21/03/2019 13:15

Important post R0wantrees

Melroses · 21/03/2019 13:17

The BBC as an institution seems to have a peculiar and problematic view of children. Almost as though it sees itself in some sense as the custodian of the nation's children. Add to that some very weird permissive views, that can embrace sex-related matters, and it all looks rather disturbing.

Biddy Baxter at one end and Jimmy Saville at the other. Biddy Baxter must have had some idea of what she was up against.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 28/03/2019 09:50

nobody ever mentioning the possibility that butch lesbians are fine the way they are.

And ironically the people who insist on "trans" individuals being accepted for "the way they are" seem to be the most vocal in not allowing other people to be accepted, or to accept themselves, for the way they are.

The pressure on lesbians to have sexual relationships with transwomen seems to be enormous from what I've read onTwitter - not to do so leads to accusations of transphobia.

Why shouldn't women - gay or straight - just be allowed to have relationships with people they find attractive ? Desiring someone is a lot more than just a body - and even if it wasn't - so what? Do men get this pressure to have sex with people they don't find fanciable? Are they vilified if they turn someone down?

OldCrone · 28/03/2019 10:31

And ironically the people who insist on "trans" individuals being accepted for "the way they are" seem to be the most vocal in not allowing other people to be accepted, or to accept themselves, for the way they are.

And transgenderism for children is all about not accepting themselves the way they are, and changing their bodies to resemble something that they are not.

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