How is this anything to do with furthering women's rights?

[SparrowNest]

I'm sympathetic to many radfem arguments, but I can't for the life of me understand how opposing lacy lingerie being made to fit a wider range of bodies helps women.

Given that similar lingerie already exists in standard women's sizes, surely expanding that so it can fit anyone is only lessening gender constraints? How is trying to restrict it only to biological women helping anything?

www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/03/01/anti-trans-protest-over-pornographic-transgender-lingerie-fashion-show

Having spent quite a while involved with the left I'm used to constantly arguing about debating priorities and tactics. Surely that's also true for those of you involved with Labour?

I don't really agree that I should be required to show deference to anyone. (Equally, I think efforts to paint older feminists as dinosaurs who shouldn't be listened to or shown respect are disgusting.)

Can’t it be about inspiring/engaging one’s own community?

The ‘masses’ will only be reached by snowball effect anyway. Most people don’t read Pink News.

FloralBunting Yeah, I know that the category has been expanded to include anyone who fancies telling people they're a bit special. I'm not too worried about upsetting those people. I do aim to be sensitive to people struggling with dysphoria, as far as is possible.

I agree with you OP. Trans people, along with everyone else, can wear what the hell they like (within reason!). I understand the issues with lingerie (can't spell) and can understand the concerns, some of which I think are valid. But this isn't it.

I have a problem with men in women's spaces, both mental and physical. I have a big problem with fetishising women. But this? No. I would imagine some transwomen will like it, as some women like Victoria's Secret shows. And it will probably inspire some AGP which I will keep well away from but as long as they don't harm others I don't care what people do in the privacy of their own home.

Good luck to them.

Sparrow, that's commendable on a broad level. And how you campaign and prioritize things is entirely up to you. Other women have walked a different path and see things differently. They are brash and in your face, and that will reach some people. Others are more conciliatory and that will reach others. This isn't a religion or an army, it's just women sticking up for women in their individual ways.

Up until a few weeks ago I think I'd have the same reaction as you OP. I'm starting to see their point now though. It's all part of a bigger picture. I'm still learning though. I follow a lot of rad fems on twitter so that helps my understanding somewhat 😊

SparrowNest I kind of agree with you about the protest. Yes women have a right to protest, and they can protest about anything they want.

But I think there are other areas of society doing more harm to women and girls.

The while trans womem in sport at the moment is a biggie.

This is my view,

I'm not out there preparing to picket the Olympics, so may be I don't get a say!

I totally get that these women have a right to protest. But I also think the underwear thing isn't such a big deal to me.

I think lacy undies are bloody uncomfortable, along with high heels etc. But men have a right to wear them if they like.

What annoys me is why no one in the media has pit two and two together and worked out why it seems dysphoria appears to present so differently depending on age and sex.

The biggest growing demographic in transfer terms is teenage females, but they are not asking for a boxer shorts and packers fashion show. They may be asking for boxer shorts and packers but they also want to get their breasts removed. For me this is the biggest tragedy of the whole current explosion on trans issues.

Is that addressed to me? Some posters on here really do seem to be labouring under the delusion that this is a private club. How dare a "newcomer" say anything which goes against the concensus

Not particularly, no. Generic comment.

This Not Sufficiently Naice type of thread gets started hereabouts on the regular. It's nothing new and as predictable as the sun rising.

Topless swimming at men only sessions? Not Sufficiently Naice

Green mankinis at Hampstead Pond? Not Sufficiently Naice

Neon pink penis stickers? Not Sufficiently Naice

The list goes on and on and Ariston. Happens every single time. No matter that these women have had their jobs threatened, their political positions and party memberships threatened, or even been punched in the face in the British home of free speech. Not Sufficiently Naice

But without these women and their activism, including their daft stunts, no space would have been created for others to speak or the assertion of women's rights to be heard. Without them, we'd be proceeding apace to GRA reform and removal of EqA exceptions.

But y'know. You say Not Sufficiently Naice. So there we go.

I find it bizarre that its claimed there is no feminist material on the internet where feminists criticise the lingerie business.

As for the trans underwear, meh. If they want to feel 'sexy' by wearing lacy knickers and whatnot, fair enough. I think it only annoys me when its 'I must have lacy underwear because I a a woman' stuff. long with the usual AGP just creeping the fuck out of me.

There is no consensus, least of all on the value of being nice. Many people in feminism believe being nice is the route to exploitation and that's certainly the strategy being implemented against women's rights.