There are genuine transgender people - but they are quiet.

[andyoldlabour]

I found this on KF, and it shows that there are transgender people with empathy, who do not agree with the way very masculine transgender people are treating women.
It came as a surprise to me, but also was very heartening.
If they were all like this person then there wouldn't be any problems, so it has confirmed my beliefs that certain people are not really transgender but using it for their own nefarious reasons.

twitter.com/kinesis/status/1062885504541110272

My concern isn't for TSNTG, it's that they will still not have learned anything and their preconceptions have been reinforced. That is their choice!

Now, I know it isn't our responsibility to educate people- I've seen that repeated again and again, and agree you don't have to. But it helps if you want people to know more and understand more. And if I don't want to be helpful? I just want to say what I think without having to second guess the mind set of the listerner? I don't want to have to double think myself - When I finally stopped teaching I found that rather freeing - and that everyone else around tought it was normal!

People change by increments, they rarely 'see the light' because someone has beaten them about the head with it. Ah! But you have to want to see the light. Many posters here beat me round the head, drowned me as they swam past fror many months Eventually I started to rethink myself, not double think, just some good old fashioned reflective practice.

Do you know what I found? Female socialisation + teaching ethics = me being too fucking polite for my own good. Every post where I disagreed I had been re-wroting, I was constantly changing my wording, to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Now I just proof read and take out the "Sorries" - and that is harder than you may imagine!

Except Lang. But that's the impact of hot banana and roughage for you.

Are you saying I'm a victim of Weetabix socialisation?

Right. Let me get this straight. The best way to encourage women to stand for the rights is for them never to actually stand for the rights in a direct fashion in case it upsets someone born male and puts the male person off continuing to try to persuade women of their personal special entitlement to women's rights?

Yeah, no.

Courage calls to courage.

Actually, I'd say that the unnatural attachment you have to herb-dressed Weetabix with hot milk has caused a distinct lack of giving a fuck what others think. I suggest that this is perhaps a marvellous inoculation against self-sabotaging socialization and therefore the strongest argument yet seen for eating the stuff...

I never ever post on these boards. But regarding Trans people being quiet, I think its because a light has been shined on what they're doing. Entering women's loos/changing rooms/gyms etc.

I saw that interview on 'this morning' with the trans lady, saying we should let trans people into these spaces because they're already there and not causing harm. But for me that isn't the point, it isn't a fear of trans people, it's a fear that we aren't safe. Over a third of women have been sexually assaulted by a man, whether we know if there's a trans person in our toilets or not is irrelevant, it's the fact they COULD be. It means every time we want to use our old safe spaces, they might not even be safe anymore. It's absolutely not the fear of trans people, it's the fear of the unknown, anyone could be in there and have the right to be there too.

their fucking rights. Sigh @ me.

Note to self: do not post on FWR while working (or pretending to oneself that one is working).

Actually, I'd say that the unnatural attachment you have to herb-dressed Weetabix with hot milk has caused a distinct lack of giving a fuck what others think. I suggest that this is perhaps a marvellous inoculation against self-sabotaging socialization and therefore the strongest argument yet seen for eating the stuff...

Ha @ herb-dressed.

For this gem, I will submit to you for, oh, five minutes at least!

Welcome TescoValue

nothing much to add but can I just say that I love how a thread that's all about how some men are nice really, that gets a male turning up to educate us about that, still turn into women talking to each other, educating each other, agreeing, disagreeing

I bloody love it

It's been hugely important to me over the years on FWR to read posters who are uncompromising in their beliefs, l found it shocking at first in a but you can't say that!!!! way - even though I secretly agreed with what was being said!

So thank you to all those amazing women past and present - just don't make me eat the WBH!!!!!

Weetabix and hot milk... OMG! The memories!

I think I may regret ever starting this thread now - he says slinking back into the undergrowth

"Do you know what I found? Female socialisation + teaching ethics = me being too fucking polite for my own good. Every post where I disagreed I had been re-wroting, I was constantly changing my wording, to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Now I just proof read and take out the "Sorries" - and that is harder than you may imagine!"

This ^ ^

Now this strikes a chord. I live my life like this.

@BettyDuMonde thank you!
I'm young, admit I don't think I'm very 'woke' on this but whether transexuals have been here the whole time hasn't really got anything to do with this. It's being talked about now and women aren't happy, surely this has to be discussed? You can't just have every man and his dog in our spaces? What a bizarre concept. Doesn't that just irradicate women's rights? Muslim women's rights? Just because trans rights are coming to the forefront doesn't mean ours can just be put on the back bench. Why is it being shut down every time a women mentions it? Saying we aren't inclusive! Women worked fucking hard for their rights, and rightly so.
Can't we all campaign for safe spaces for trans people? All the women I know would be on board with that, I'm sure none of us want to segregate anyone but that doesn't mean we want our rights trampled on. I just don't understand it!

Andy, the way threads take on a life of their own is joyful. Usually!

It's been hugely important to me over the years on FWR to read posters who are uncompromising in their beliefs, l found it shocking at first in a but you can't say that!!!! way - even though I secretly agreed with what was being said!

That's the journey for us all though, isn't it?

You can't say that!

Oh, okay, I see. Yes, you can say that but you mustn't say it like that!

Repeat this uncomfortable feeling until finally the scales fall from your eyes and you realise that you can say whatever the fuck you like, however the fuck you like. And if males don't like it, that's their problem.

But if you won't abide any woman ever speaking in a way that challenges your Inner Beryl, you will remain a slave to your Inner Beryl forever.

But if you won't abide any woman ever speaking in a way that challenges your Inner Beryl, you will remain a slave to your Inner Beryl forever.

And men have zero problem saying exactly what they think, and expect you to accommodate it.

And if you don't, it's hate speech/an attack/hysteria, etc.

Can't we all campaign for safe spaces for trans people?

If you mean 'we' as society, why not - where's the campaign though?

Trans people can do their own campaigns for their own spaces

Us women are busy fightin* to keep ours

So over inclusivity

Know exactly what it means now

Budge up women and whilst budging up also shut up

So over inclusivity

and bloody diversity

DS has to go to school on friday dressed as a Mr Man to celebrate diversity. Oh I LOLed

How does that work? Unless he goes as a Little Miss.

@DoctoressPlague well the current campaign is evidently the one that quiets women. Trans women need to come up with something else I think.

Fascinating discussion, which has helped me clarify my thoughts. I know you brilliant posters know that you influence lurkers, but just to remind you that we're here and learning (and helping to peak others in real life!)

If an adult TS male is using female spaces, services etc and becomes aware that these actions based on their aquired 'rights' (despite not intended to cause direct harm) have contributed to circumstances whereby the risk of harm to vulnerable women and girls increases, safeguarding frameworks are damaged and women's right eroded, why wouldn't they change their actions?

Miranda Yardley did.

Adults who know/believe they are not a risk often maintain boundaries because they recognise how important protective boundaries are. Its recognising the responsibility we share towards others who may be vulnerable and is rooted in respect.

The thing is, worldwide, women have far less power, money and resources than men AND do the vast majority of the unpaid labour.

So it’s just not reasonable to expect us to take on the extra work of looking after the interests of trans identified males.