The Times reports on a new jail in a jail for trans women

[truthisarevolutionaryact]

Andrew Gilligan reporting:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/europes-first-jail-in-a-jail-for-trans-women-vg7r57qfh?shareToken=50bf9da1df3d91e8bce68b1c608561e5

Maybe those most vulnerable of women - prisoners - are about to be finally protected from male born sex offenders.

That's good news. It's like some commonsense is gradually seeping in at long last.

Pity it took women being sexually assaulted to focus the minds of the powers-that-be, though.

It's still within a women's prison though. I wonder why

Argh. The bit about we have to balance women not getting sexually assaulted with men having their feelings respected.

Obviously stuff respecting the women's rights to privacy and dignity and not having to shower naked with leering men enjoying the view or intimidating them all day, that's fine. Despite the high proportion of them who have been sexually abused. It's only them actually being criminally assaulted that's a step over the line.

The men on the other hand - perfectly well protected from being raped or sexually assaulted in men's facilities, it's all about their needs and feelings and identities.

Could the sheer bloody sexism of this be writ any larger? I get angrier by the day.

Should not be in the female estate though.

Plus those male inmates with a GRC will still stay in the women's prisons, no doubt. Lauren Jeska for example. The MoJ does not consider these inmates to be transgender, only female.

QoFE - perhaps logistics? (This prison had an unused wing) Or to help with the inevitable complaints from TRAs

Either way, I'm with Dr Nic in cautiously welcoming the move

It may be a sop towards the TRA response but it won't work. Stand by for howls of rage about segregation and not being recognised as full women.

Why is it in a women's prison?

Surely they should have been housed in a wing on the male estate?

I think it's a start, a shift at least. It will be interesting to see if it becomes clear that the aim is to have access to women, rather than not to be housed with men.

I'd be willing to bet that some GRC holders won't be transferring from their women's prison.

These will be the 3 highest risk male prisoners with a GRC. Probably some of those who were transferred back to a men's prison after the Karen White debacle. Very likely to be sex offenders against women.

Unsure how they're going to manage risk adequately. Are they going to put high risk trans prisoners in with low risk trans prisoners just on the basis that they are trans?

The male estate has room to adequately house, by risk and away from other inmates, the number of male trans prisoners. The female estate does not.

I'm pretty sure the reason for choosing Downview is because it has spare capacity that can be kept separate from the rest of the prison. And, as Spartacus says, it's useful that it's a women's prison, to fend off any/likely backlash.

I wonder what the Prison Service will do for staffing. I hope the Prison Service has also taken on board the problem of transwomen insisting on being searched by female officers.

I can't see how this will work. There will never be enough room in the female estate to accommodate a large influx (in the sense of female offender totals) of prisoners of varying risks safely.

I think this is a step in the right direction - it’s better than housing transwomen in the same integrated spaces as women.

It’s been a rollercoaster of a few days!

I hope they plan on letting them.outside at different times or making sure they never meet to endure theres no verbal harassment.

Really should be in the mens prison.

Still better than before I guess

"It said wider policy on trans prisoners was still in development and “no final decisions have been made”.

Astonishing, isn't it? The MoJ doesn't know what to do with trans prisoners apparently.

But up until very recently it did know what to do. They just sent male inmates into women's prisons based on these men's self-declared feelings of wanting to go to a woman's prison. Self-ID in action.

This is good news.

I don't think they should be part of the women's estate really but it's a far better solution than the prior one assuming there is complete separation as suggested.

It should at least stop the farce of male prisoners who are motivated by access to women claiming trans status.

I can't see how this will work. There will never be enough room in the female estate to accommodate a large influx (in the sense of female offender totals) of prisoners of varying risks safely.

Good point. This plan whilst certainly more welcome than the last isn't without flaws.

I think it's a wise move, it protects the female inmates while not overly offending those demanding that transwomen be put in the female estate, as they are but aren't at the same time. But I worry about the impact it will have on crime statistics.

Maybe if they are housing trans prisoners separately then they will have to start counting them alongside biological male and female prisoners - otherwise how will they know who to place where?

From Gilligan's article last week:

"A number of high-risk trans inmates have already been moved back to men's prisons".

So these 3 will probably be some of those who were moved back.

These will be high-risk inmates.

There is capacity for 19 in this new wing & there are currently 20 with GRCs (I think that’s what I read earlier) so this will accommodate nearly all of them.
The self-IDers will have to stay in men’s prisons.