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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Miranda in court

850 replies

EweSurname · 01/03/2019 12:11

I didn't realise Miranda Yardley was in court today over alleged transphobic harrasment.

Debbie Hayton
@DebbieHayton
At Basildon Magistrates Court where Miranda Yardley is on trial for transphobic Harassment. The prosecution applied for reporting restrictions to prevent the complainant Helen Islan from being named. The judge has not granted them. So Helen Islan can be named.

Sending Miranda good luck vibes.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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IDoN0tCare · 01/03/2019 19:28

That twitter account has been suspended. Now that is a shock. It’s not often Twitter suspends those supporting the agenda.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 01/03/2019 19:28

I’m sure they must’ve said something else then!

Iused2BanOptimist · 01/03/2019 19:29

I really hope so Needmoresleep

I'm not optimistic about that scenario though. From barristers I know you're pretty much as good as the last case you won. I'm not sure it would look that good on your appraisal that you wasted X £££ on a pointless case. Unless the order came from very on high with a green light I would think it would be a risky strategy. Not to mention the horror if they had actually won the case.

TurboTeddy · 01/03/2019 19:32

ToeToToe Interesting that they don't mention Miranda is TS in the tweet. Anyway I'm very pleased for Miranda that this is all over and hope he's having a very large drink to celebrate.

FemalePersonator · 01/03/2019 19:34

No sympathy for Helen at all. She brought this on herself.

Macareaux · 01/03/2019 19:43

Sorry if this has been posted already but CPS Transgender guidance can be found on the Mermaids website and unsurprising Mermaids contributed to it

www.mermaidsuk.org.uk/assets/media/CPS%20Transgender%20Equality%20Management%20Guidance.pdf

Uptheapplesandpears · 01/03/2019 19:43

The CPS didn't just do it independently though - Helen made the complaint. Although I agree the CPS is culpable here too - the case should clearly have never been brought.

Yes, precisely. Helen is responsible for making the complaint in the first place and attempting to use the police to try and shut people up when she disagrees with them. The CPS are responsible for choosing to bring the case. They're both at fault, for different things, and the one doesn't excuse the other.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 01/03/2019 19:53

If Helen had only been told that Miranda was ‘harassing her’ then that is surely hearsay and inadmissible?

EweSurname · 01/03/2019 19:53

Sonia Poulton
@SoniaPoulton
'TERF' was acknowledged as a derogatory word in court aimed at, primarily, gender critical women. Helen Islan said it was just 'social media shorthand'.

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LangCleg · 01/03/2019 19:54

On the question of costs, from what I can gather (IANAL) Miranda has been awarded costs which the CPS are liable for. However this will only be at the legal aid rate.

If anybody wants to contribute to any out-of-pocket expenses Miranda may have had that won't be recompensed by costs - or even just buy Miranda a thoroughly deserved drink at the pub - then there is a "support my work" link on Miranda's website, which goes to a PayPal.

Won't post a link as I'm sure it's not allowed but I imagine you can all find it if you want to!

Bittermints · 01/03/2019 19:56

So the CPS has guidance on CPS Transgender Equality
Management Guidance. OK.

Mermaids helped to write that guidance. Hmm

A vociferous supporter of Mermaids, who may at one time have been an employee/consultant/high-level volunteer (not sure of what exactly HI's role with Mermaids was), makes a complaint to the police, who fall over themselves to help out (having, of course, in all probability been trained by Mermaids or similar - not to mention hate crime normally being a far easier crime to investigate and get a conviction for than burglary or rape and in our target-ridden society that counts too).

Police pass to CPS, CPS follows guidance and prosecutes an extremely well-known transsexual for transphobia. O-Kaaaay.

HI expects to be anonymous when it comes to trial. I wonder if this was because the CPS said she would be, or if she just assumed.

Stipendiary Magistrate says no, there's no reason for you to be anonymous. HI falls apart and nearly walks, but in the end agrees to be cross-examined. Two hours of incoherent babble follow. Defence barrister merciless in using HI's own tweets, of which there are many.

Magistrate listens. I imagine his eyes must have been under great strain as their natural inclination would have been to roll right back in their sockets. Eventually he can stand no more and says 'Case dismissed!' and awards costs against CPS.

Is that about the size of it?

EweSurname · 01/03/2019 20:02

Sonia Poulton
@SoniaPoulton
It was fully revealed that her stance was not accurate and she was seen to be an active campaigner and volunteer for Mermaids promoting their ideology.

Sonia Poulton
@SoniaPoulton
Serious questions must be asked why the police and the CPS pursued this case. It did not bear up to scrutiny. Helen Islan claimed Miranda Yardley had 'outed' Mrs. Islan's trans child but an internet search revealed that Mrs. Islan did that.

Is it the case that the police have become too involved with Mermaids, given that they are advised by the charity, and sought to make an example of Miranda Yardley? They failed. Miranda was awarded costs by the judge.

Helen Islan sought to portray herself as a victim but she was revealed to be a transgender activist who targeted people who maintained biological differences between men and women. People who she demonised online included Posie Parker and Stephanie Davies-Arai.

I believe today's hearing was a key turning point. The police and CPS are not going to be able to be such willing gophers for Mermaids. The Judge was clearly appalled.

Dr Louise Raw
@LouiseRawAuthor
Thank you for your company today
@DebbieHayton

@SoniaPoulton

@joaniwalshi

@Transgendertrd

@uracontra_

It felt historic; I hope we can now debate these contentious & complex issues properly, openly, and with mutual respect. I’m not betting on it, like- but I hope!!

Sonia Poulton
@SoniaPoulton
Replying to
@LouiseRawAuthor
So great to meet you all today. I agree, it did feel historic. I felt shivery driving home like something major had happened within this debate. Like you, Louise, I hope we CAN debate it.

Sonia Poulton
@SoniaPoulton
Replying to
@thespiralquirk
Mermaids came off badly in court. Helen Islan was clearly uncomfortable when Susie Green's history of taking her child to Thailand was raised. In fact, hearing it in court one must wonder why media, police, schools and Govt. have fallen over themselves to align with Mrs. Green?

FeministFreedomFighter
@FeministFreedo1
Must be a hell of a shock to find a judge (anyone!) who doesn’t bow down to the totalitarian cult. They really must have thought everyone would kow tow

Sonia Poulton
@SoniaPoulton
Replying to
@FeministFreedo1
I'm still pinching myself. He was fair and no fool. He repeatedly forced Mrs. Islan to 'answer the question'. It was clear that she felt if she said Miranda made her feel harassed over & over it would win the day. It didn't. Helen Islan was revealed as the problem, not Miranda.

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OvaHere · 01/03/2019 20:12

Seems Sonia is making a documentary which is why she was at the court today.

twitter.com/SoniaPoulton/status/1101573371576401925

ErrolTheDragon · 01/03/2019 20:12

It was clear that she felt if she said Miranda made her feel harassed over & over it would win the day. It didn't. Helen Islan was revealed as the problem, not Miranda.

It's almost as if she had an irrational fear of a TW. There should be a word for that.

Needmoresleep · 01/03/2019 20:18

Optimist, can you see a scenario where the order did come from on high?

Bitscof the Stonewall hydra (Mermaids, Gires etc) keep complaining to the high level contacts they have made in the police and CPS when writing guidance or delivering training, that no prosecutions have been brought.

The Woke person on high who keeps commissionubg this stuff sends the message that the CPS need to take transphobia more seriously, giving Helens latest complaint as an example. Helen is delighted as she thinks, with a transteenager, she will be able to stay anonymous. Others egg her on. Something needs to be done to silence Miranda.

But the judge is not having any of it. Having described my conspiracy theory, I will leave it to others to work up some more theories on why. The judge simply being sensible perhaps?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/03/2019 20:20

Seems Sonia is making a documentary

Would that be a proper on TV documentary or something on YouTube?

kooshbin · 01/03/2019 20:22

I wonder which CPS office pushed for the court hearing. Was it Yorkshire, where I believe Islan lives?

I realise the hearing was in Basildon, Essex. What's their record on trans issues? Do they get training from one of the usual suspects, or did they just get handed the brief from Yorkshire CPS and be expected to get on with it?

OvaHere · 01/03/2019 20:27

Would that be a proper on TV documentary or something on YouTube?

I don't know, she just mentioned it in a tweet.

Nephilim1964 · 01/03/2019 21:04

I don't know if this has been posted already, but i think this is another important comment.

Miranda in court
EverardDigby · 01/03/2019 21:08

From what I understand from DV / SV cases the CPS decide whether to take it forward but the willingness of the key witness to testify can be an important part of that decision, I.e. it's unlikely to have gone forward without HI being a willing (or even eager) participant. Unless as someone said earlier they wanted to test it out.

RedToothBrush · 01/03/2019 21:32

I've just sat and read all 20 pages of this thread and wanted to make a few critical point about the whole case

  1. A trans person is on trial for transphobic harassment. The complainant is not trans. These incredibly Militant trans parents need to be seen for what they are. Their child's identity is not coming from the child in a number of cases. It's been raised by the Tavistock and by several other individuals or groups about how the parents are projecting onto the children in various ways. Eg homophobic parents wanting to 'trans away the gay'. The term Munchausens by proxy has been mentioned in passing with reference to certain parents.

And this is where you need to stress what this case was really about. It's not the identity of the child. Helen Island has fame and attention from her child who she has plastered all over the internet and TV, and then has a memory loss moment when other people refer to her public persona and that of her child's. (I believe there is legal precident over privacy on this; you can’t claim your privacy has been breeched if you put stuff on the Internet which is publicly available and you gain media attention from and someone references that)

The whole case isn't about transphobia. It's about the idea of Helen's OWN identity being under attack. Even her twitter handle reflects his. Her identity is as a mother to a trans child. Without 'this special status' SHE is nothing and HER identity is erased. Not her child's. It's identity by proxy.

She is so emotionally invested in this it is impossible for her child to disassociate or separate.

Stephanie Davies-Arai mentioned in Miranda Yardley trial for Islan’s treatment of her on socmed. Again, Islan’s response: I may be vocal and have strong opinions in which case people are free to report me but it doesn’t warrant harassment. Judge found no evidence of harassment.

Helen has 'strong opinions' but other people are not allowed them. This is 'transphobia'. The identity of others - such as a trans woman named Miranda - is irrelevant. Cos this is about Helen and Helens ego. And Helens need to be right and important. Helen can not be questioned by others nor challenged by others. Is this a healthy response to others having an opinion? It raises some pretty big safeguarding and ethical questions relating to 'undue pressure'...

I can't help but feel rather sorry for Helen. She too must have been traumatised by the day and was supposedly in tears whilst giving evidence. To some extent I think she is also a victim of this crazy ideology and seeing some of the mind control that goes on online, it's easy to see why people fall for it. Sadly when the whole fantasy comes tumbling down there will be thousands like Helen who will need deprogramming.

I am more dubious about this. See above. Is Helen a victim here? Is it about her child's identity and right to privacy or is it about Helen herself? It's important. Helen is actively trying to push this on others. Is that for the benefit of the trans community (hint: if its going after a transsexual then I'm curious as to how you explain that one) or is it about protecting Helen and justifying her own actions?

These are important questions in assessing what's really going on here.

It seems to me that it comes back to Helen not anyone else every time.

At best it's a wilful denial to avoid facing up to other issues or to prevent deeper questioning. Avoidance behaviour. So what is being avoided?

In Helens case I don't think it's merely about separating herself from other possible alternatives in a full on doubling down on decisions she had self doubt or fears about making. Which I think is probably true of some trans parents. Helen wasn't just cheerleading.

This whole case is a demonstration of what motivates Helen and who she is. It's in the public interest to see it laid bare.

I mean, who the fuck tries to go after someone trans for transphobia when you aren't trans yourself! It was a trial of identity and whose identity definition trumped the other. It sort to make it impossible for Miranda to identify as trans on Miranda OWN terms and definitions. Miranda's right to self identify if you will. It was an affront to free speech and the expression of others. Its the act of an authoritarian way of thinking and acting.

Just how much of an authoritarian is Helen and how far does it go into Helens parenting? We must ask these questions to understand what has happened here and what the implications of those answers are.

This is important.

These are people who are training others to their way of thinking. And are influential and have status because of their children. Their children make the parents untouchable.

There should be klaxons going off everywhere as the result of this case. They will try and report the shit out of everything on the grounds that it is personal. It's not. The judge made the point, the case was in the public interest to know about. And as a public activist Helen is in the public eye and should be scrutinised for her personal behaviour, just as we might look at a politician whose personal life raises questions about their use of status and power and how their own relationships might reflect their morality and ethics or lack of.

Helen was influential at Mermaids. Her social media links mean she still is, even if she tries to distance herself. Her importance in the echo chamber that was mutually created by the organisation means they can not at this stage disassociate from the past and prsent - only the future.

I have far more, not less questions this evening than I did this morning.

Respect to Miranda. I hope you are having a very large and well deserved drink tonight.

I hope lots of journalists are busy cranking up Barbara tonight as they send the copy to their editors.

RedToothBrush · 01/03/2019 21:37
  1. see all the above in the context of 'the woke's' own identity. Its all inward and about the self and not about how others identify and how this crosses with others legal rights and interests.

It's all about presenting to the world in a superficial way, not understanding the world (or others). It's Instagram political identities for the consumption of others and in order to gain power and status within a group without thought to the impact that has on others.

Me, me, me. Always.

truthisarevolutionaryact · 01/03/2019 21:49

Nailed it RedToothBrush

BickerinBrattle · 01/03/2019 21:55

Great analysis, RedToothBrush

TwitterLovesMAPs · 01/03/2019 21:57

Yep that’s pretty much it in a nutshell RedToothBrush. Excellent post.

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