Infant Feeding - Massive Straw Men with Ambivalence & Gaslights

[Ineedacupofteadesperately]

I've felt for a long time that something is 'off' about the discussion in the media around infant feeding. Apart from anything else the fact that the alternative to a mother breastfeeding is automatically accepted to be formula rather than donor milk, and no-one seems to ever question this. Why? Throughout history the alternative was wet nursing, not feeding cows milk. We have successful blood donation - why have all the milk banks been destroyed, we used to have more? Why is no money put into this in a supposedly rich country?

Anyway, someone sent me this link and I found it thought provoking. I think the comparison of adult feeding habits very pertinent at the end, but I do think part of the problem is that there are vested interests very focused on this remaining seen as individual choice rather than individual decisions in a very stacked environment without proper investment to support women, which often means there is no real choice at all.

www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2019/02/infant-feeding-massive-straw-men-with.html

I agree. It's an extremely emotive area.

You might find the book 'The Politics of Breastfeeding' interesting.

Wet nursing seems to me to be exploitation of women for their female biology, much the same as surrogacy. Wet nurses were poor women, basically being treated as dairy animals by rich people. I'll have to think harder about my position on donor milk as I've never really given it too much consideration before, but I do not think wet nursing was a good thing.

And in the past babies were given non-human milk, orphans in particular. Wet nurses were for rich families.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donkey_milk

Personally I’d prefer to feed my child formula milk which is a perfectly fine alternative rather than use other women as some kind of dairy cow.

At least from what I know of the practice. Thinking about it a moment longer, I realise it's very likely that altruistic wet nursing also took place, so I suppose that post was a little hasty!

I’ve not much knowledge on the subject. How is the milk checked though? I’d be put off incase it was contaminated by something the woman had taken or was infected by.

Or could that never happen?

The only way putting money into milk banks would really work is by paying women for their milk. You will then end up with worse off women providing the milk and better off women buying it. I don't see how else this would work in practise.
Personally I couldn't breastfeed. I would not have wanted to use another's woman's milk unless I had no alternative. Of course there are many settings around the world where there really isn't a safe alternative (what access to clean water is poor)... I'm not too sure how it works in those settings? I'm assuming wet nurses within communities. Historically also many of the babies where they could not breastfeed would have died due to being fed inappropriate foods. Interesting topic though!

I think the donor milk thing is fraught with ethical and safety issues that keeping milk banks mainly for babies who are early or ill makes sense to me. I wouldn't want women to be paid for donated milk, and I also wouldn't want women to think of access to a milk bank as an right as opposed to a medical need offered in the context of sickness or SCBU etc.

It's just not a practical or accessible option for most, so it's not worth even listing it as an alternative to breastfeeding and formula.

I have been a milk donner.
They were very thorough.
A lead from the local milk bank came to my home explained the procedures, provided sterilized bottles, a freezer thermometer and took blood for testing. Same as in pregnancy to be screened at virology and microbiology.

I had to fill in the temperature chart daily and maintained an empty drawer/shelf in the freezer. It was collected when I called the service by a volunteer biker.

The milk is screened before use as well.

If the temperature in my home freezer were not correct the milk would be discarded.

Wet nursing is interesting. I’m sure a lot of altruistic wet nursing went on, but for a poor woman with a baby or whose own baby had died, it was certainly a way of earning money-and more pleasant than a lot of other ways.

Stinkytoe

Yes, pumping milk is nothing like donating blood in that it represents a huge amount of labour. I pumped for a period of 6 months for my first child and it was sooo much work I said there was no way I was doing that again for my second child, let alone someone else's child.

I don't think there should be any pressure on women to perform this labour for the sake of altruism when we are lucky enough to have an alternative that nourishes babies perfectly well. Human milk should not certainly be a right, because the other side of that coin is that a certain number of women must be compelled to provide milk. And paying women for their milk should be absolutely out of the question, from a feminist perspective.

I assume a large number of milk donors are women who are/were pumping anyway for their own child, though, and have an oversupply or their child weaned earlier than planned and they don't want to waste their stored milk? In those cases I tentatively don't see an issue with it...

Thinking about it a moment longer, I realise it's very likely that altruistic wet nursing also took place, so I suppose that post was a little hasty

Quite common still I'm other parts of the world. My Kuwaiti mate refers to his friend as 'cousin' not because they are cousins, but because they were breastfed by the same woman at some point. It's often practiced in extended families when a mother is unwell, deceased or simply needs a break.

I have also read that historically poorer women would act as wet nurses for richer women, and their own babies would be fed by other means, or only partially with breast milk, thus being far worse off in terms of nutrition and health. Very sad, I thank my lucky stars that we have formula now. Also agree with the above on the amount of labour involved in expressing. I managed 2 months and it was hellish.

Magic, you've reminded me that I tried to donate a large stash of frozen milk I had with DS1 and the milk bank rejected it because I hadn't collected it in a way that could be guaranteed to be safe, in the way Trina describes. My home freezer wasn't high enough spec, bottles might not have been properly sterile etc. It was fine for my healthy baby but might not have been for the preemies and very sick babies who they needed to feed.

Pumping is also so much work and time as well, I don't think it should ever be expected of women to donate or rewarded financially.

“A student from London, England, is being praised for her kit that would make men be able to "chestfeed" children in order to overcome the gender inequality of women-only breastfeeding.”

www.theblaze.com/news/this-kit-will-solve-gender-inequality-in-breastfeeding-by-making-men-lactate-heres-how

Wet nurses in ye olden times were frequently forced to abandon their newborns in order to feed the rich family's child. Very unlikely they would have been able to feed both children, the women would have had to move into the other family's home to be available to the infant 24/7.

the women would have had to move into the other family's home to be available to the infant 24/7.

Or the baby was sent to live with the wet nurse. This was literally called baby farming.

I can't see there being a huge uptake on that 'chestfeeding' kit (apart from in a certain circle of course.....).

The Human Milk Foundation: humanmilkfoundation.org/

"The Human Milk Foundation was set up to give the opportunity of being fed with human milk to more babies, and to enable parents to have access to the astonishing science that is starting to explain the impact of breastfeeding on babies and mothers over a lifetime.

Breastfeeding can be challenging. New mothers may need time to establish their supply and support to get feeding on track. If supplemental feeding is necessary, the safest option is screened donor milk from a human milk bank. Along with skilled lactation support, donor milk can help to support mothers to establish their own confidence and milk supply.

We believe a new approach is possible. Mothers want to help other mothers. All that is needed to increase the amount of donor milk available is the resources and will to make the logistics possible. Research to unpick the links between Our core vision is to ensure that all babies can have access to screened donor milk when their own mothers cannot produce milk, or need time and support to get there.

Change is possible, but it needs nurturing. Join us to make this vision a reality for the generations to come."

humanmilkfoundation.org/donating/

In the UK, milk banks used to exist in every hospital that delivered babies.

I agree the kind of wet nursing that happened for Queen Victoria was pretty awful but I was thinking of altruistic wet nursing more where other mums provide a bit of help in the time when a mother is trying to establish supply to give them a bit of breathing room to establish their own supply.

Anyway, one of my thoughts about the article was that the feelings of women who are really sad they couldn't breastfeed seem to be in general dismissed in the many articles about this. There is never a sense of yes, you were completely failed by the system, more a "well formula is fine so get over it". I know several women who have admitted to me they still feel sad and guilty that they couldn't feed their babies themselves.

I donated breast milk with DD1, I was exclusively expressing and bottle feeding, and had too much. I expressed for 11 months. When I tried to do the same with DD2 (I found breastfeeding tough and wanted to use bottles), my supply dried up quickly.

My sister couldn’t express at all, and I don’t know anyone else who found it as easy as I did with DD1.

The idea that all this needs is resources and “will” is ludicrous - many women can’t help even if they wanted to.

Formula is not poison, and if women weren’t under so much pressure to be “perfect” mothers and successfully breast feed or feel like a failure (like I did) then a lot of new mums would be a whole lot happier!

I was devastated that I couldn’t feed DS. He was really bashed about during delivery ending in an EMCS and a week in the NICU, but nobody diagnosed either of his tongue ties. I had some great help, and some not so great, including the NICU nurse who sighed and literally shoved him onto my boob when I asked for help. I expressed for him to have in a bottle and it was a bloody nightmare. I wish firstly that someone had caught the TTS. Secondly, I wish someone had said to me that it was alright. That they knew I’d made a huge effort and sometimes breastfeeding just doesn’t work out. That my baby would thrive on formula, and that it made my life a million times easier when he was diagnosed as lactose intolerant and I just swapped his formula instead of having to go dairy free myself. I do think the language used is incredibly emotive but I don’t think you make a decision about feeding with your head - it’s a heart decision.

If I couldn't breastfeed I would have rather fed DS donated human milk than formula. I didn't manage to donate last time (lots of pain killers after the birth) but I'll try to if I have another baby.

Tbh if in a random far fetched emergency like me popping to the shop and breaking a limb someone had breastfed my DS I'd have just felt grateful. Similarly I'd do it for someone else.

When my Nonna's were little girls/young women there were still a few wet nurses about. Other women would leave their babies with them and go work in the fields/factory etc. so not rich women at all.
Interesting how much things change in 50 odd years