Infant Feeding - Massive Straw Men with Ambivalence & Gaslights

[Ineedacupofteadesperately]

I've felt for a long time that something is 'off' about the discussion in the media around infant feeding. Apart from anything else the fact that the alternative to a mother breastfeeding is automatically accepted to be formula rather than donor milk, and no-one seems to ever question this. Why? Throughout history the alternative was wet nursing, not feeding cows milk. We have successful blood donation - why have all the milk banks been destroyed, we used to have more? Why is no money put into this in a supposedly rich country?

Anyway, someone sent me this link and I found it thought provoking. I think the comparison of adult feeding habits very pertinent at the end, but I do think part of the problem is that there are vested interests very focused on this remaining seen as individual choice rather than individual decisions in a very stacked environment without proper investment to support women, which often means there is no real choice at all.

www.analyticalarmadillo.co.uk/2019/02/infant-feeding-massive-straw-men-with.html

www.amazon.co.uk/Politics-Breastfeeding-When-Breasts-Business-ebook/dp/B004JU1JCA/?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Thank you! Off to read.

Ed, but those things aren't problems for everyone. I would have been in that ~32% who didn't experience any problems and fed for as long as I wanted to with DS1. I think some women are lucky that things line up like that. I know my own mum didn't experience any problems either. In fact the only reason I had problems with DS2 was because he was low in oxygen and had to go to special care and was tube fed.

Remember people who find things easy and simple don't tend to post on problem pages or visit support groups about them.

Up interesting post. Can I ask, surely if they had the right support, bf would be so much cheaper and easier than formula though? So much cheaper than formula but also you save yourself the cost of bottles, sterilising equipment etc? And it's the ultimate in portability. What is stopping better uptake do you think?

So the reasons why breastfeeding uptake isn't higher amongst the white working class are very complex. I use the term higher rather than better because some of them are perfectly sensible responses to people's individual socio-economic circumstances, and breastfeeding wouldn't necessarily be an improvement. My thoughts, based on my own experiences of living in one white working class community, in no particular order of importance:

• This is a cohort that aren't the most responsive to public health messages generally, for all kinds of reasons. No reason to think infant feeding would be an exception.

• Whether bf is easier than formula is something of a matter of opinion anyway: Woman A prefers the convenience of not having to wash bottles, Woman B prefers the convenience of not having to do all the feeds.

But those advantages that BF clearly does have tend to require higher initial investment of time, energy and sometimes money in order for long term gain. Various posters have given us their experiences of this here. There's a lot of research about why people on lower incomes are less likely to be willing or able to make initial investment in return for longer term promised gains, in relation to all kinds of behaviours. It's just much harder to do that in some situations. Being on a low income literally changes the way your brain makes decisions. So again, it's not a massive surprise that this also permeates infant feeding.

• Relatedly, FF costs are easier to budget for and you know what you're getting. You know in advance it's going to be £9 a week or whatever, for one year. That can be less intimidating than something that may well end up being cheaper but is less bankable. If you pay £9 for a box of formula, whatever happens, that formula will feed your kid for several days. You may spend that much on bus fare to the support group and nipple cream with no such guarantees, and still end up having to find money for the formula and bottles anyway.

• I don't think lack of support is the main issue, or at least not any more than in any other sector of UK society. One of the few services near me that does still have funding is the bf support group. I presume it's no better than the imperfect services on offer in other areas, but if anything we are better provisioned than the average. Also the women I know who did breastfeed didn't seem to use it.

• I'm not sure some of the ways we talk about breastfeeding in terms of touting all the benefits without also acknowledging the clear benefits of formula feeding are that helpful in general, but there's a specific class application to that too. I don't mean that most white working class women are necessarily eg aware that formula is better in terms of Vitamin K and Vitamin D and making feeding decisions on that basis, but I sort of mean the general culture that makes it more likely for healthcare professionals to be telling you about the reduction in gastro problems but not that. People do pick up on that. Some white working class people kind of have an idea that professionals don't get us and don't think our behaviour is good enough. So if they're having the ease of breastfeeding and the difficulty of formula talked up to them, which let's be honest the NHS does quite often do, they understandably take that with a pinch of salt because it doesn't match their experiences. And it may well colour the attitude to other, less debatable and more clearly proven by the evidence points such as breastfeeding reducing gastro problems. And also sometimes on information about things like not putting baby rice in bottles coming from perceived 'authority' figures.

• Breastfeeding is just a lot less common in most white working class communities. I have friends living in more affluent communities who felt real pressure to breastfeed because that was what was expected and what they saw around them. I didn't feel affected by that in my area.

• Male partners are more likely to be in jobs only paying statutory and less likely to be able to take 2 weeks off. Most women I know in my area do have quite a lot of family support during the day, but the dad being around less and needing to rest at night for work is going to have an impact on the support available in those really hard first few weeks.

• Similarly, women who receive Carers Allowance are as a cohort some of the poorer in society, and obviously also have caring responsibilities. If eg you are your mum's carer, you probably don't have time to invest in cluster feeding. Women in this position don't get maternity leave and are going to be disproportionately found living in the poorest areas.

That was an essay!

Bravo @Uptheapplesandpears

Your last two points in particular aren’t ever really addressed in discussions about breastfeeding. Many women from low income families don’t take any kind of mat leave which rules out BF.

It is not as simple as it is quite often made out to be by NCT BF counsellors.

Started reading the book. I really related to the part that says in a bottle fed culture women can expect a baby to suck the nipples in the same way as a bottle teat because that's exactly what I ended up doing and it really shredded my nipples. It was my own fault as she didn't join me on postnatal until the second night and I didn't get a chance to ask someone to observe a feed.

I remember being convinced something was horribly wrong with me and I'd end up having my boobs amputated or something. Horrible memories.

Thanks! I was worried I'd typed too much and nobody would be arsed reading it.

I agree with everything you said Up.

I've re bought that book as well because it was cheap on kindle and someone borrowed my original and didn't give it back :)

I'd add to Up's excellent points, that if you're raised with babies meaning bottles, it can be such an evocative thing as well - just as everyone gets excited to buy little blankets and socks and clothes, buying the bottles and other equipment and imagining yourself using it is all part of that preparation and nesting for the baby. I remember being so excited to feed DS1 rusks because I remembered my baby sister having them, even though by the time DS1 was born they were very out of fashion/frowned upon because they were full of sugar. Incidentally I got over it when I realised how much mess they make when chewed and spat out. And DH was really anti the idea of baby led weaning even though he agreed the theory made sense, because he had such warm and happy memories of spoon feeding his nieces and wanted very much to have that experience with our baby.

Thank you.

@Up I think those last two points especially are something many won't have considered at all.

Up - thank you for your posts - not too long at all, really interesting

Finally finished reading, definitely gave me a lot to think about.

I think women are really left in a terrible position with poor support for breastfeeding from the medical professionals they should be able to trust but then when they do go on to formula it's the same establishment which shames them.

Yes clear info needs to be given about formula as well as BF. But couple of things I don't understand when it comes to FFing.

It seems to be 70s and 80s mums batch made their bottles, put them in the fridge, warming them up as required. 5mins bottle is ready.

2000 onward advice seemed to change to make them up as required. So baby wakes, mum boils the kettle, waits for it to cool, before making bottle 20 mins min to get bottle - meanwhile baby is starving, squealing blue murder.

Have fridges got worse during that time?
Is the formula not as good?
Is steam not at good at sterilizing as the old fashioned milton?

What's changed?
I BF so might have got bits wrong but going on the observation of friends baby getting his bottle.

I've not looked into it too closely to be fair but it really seems like no one wants to give a straight answer about preparing formula in advance.

2000 onward advice seemed to change to make them up as required. So baby wakes, mum boils the kettle, waits for it to cool, before making bottle 20 mins min to get bottle - meanwhile baby is starving, squealing blue murder.

This was utterly unfeasible for us so we made them up in advance.

(Also used Colief drops which made it even more unfeasible).

Does anyone actually make in demand/at the time? Maybe daytime bottles if you're good at predicting when your baby will want a feed.

Should add some people I knew used preboiled water in flask - when I asked them how they knew it was at the right temperature, they looked at me blankly. They presumably would have to have waited for it to cool down or used cold water to cool it down if it had been the right temperature.

(but they gave it to the baby straight away so it couldn't have been).

On the breast feeding front, the only free help I could get was at a support group which involved sitting in small room with chairs in around the wall while other women's partners tried not to look at your breasts while you tried to breast feed and the advisor tried to help you. (I left my partner outside in the car). It didn't seem to occur to any of the other women or the organisers that some women don't feel fully comfortable exposing g their nipples, breasts etc ( you couldn't use a cover in the circumstances) in close proximity to men who aren't there partner. I didn't go back.

My friend was making them up as required.

Never seen a man at a BFing support group. TBH the chat was 10% feeding 90% babies in general. Met good friends at both groups i went to.

I went to a really nice BF group at a cafe. It was all I could manage in the early days

Never seen a man at a BFing support group. TBH the chat was 10% feeding 90% babies in general. Met good friends at both groups i went to.

There were about 5 other women and four had their partners in with them.

I found it cringe - worthy.

(it was a breast feeding drop-in at a children's centre).

*drop-in centre

(to clarify most of the babies were pretty much newborn and i presume the fathers were still on paternity leave).